Creating a Space for You with Jessica Kupferman
Creating a Space for You with Jessica Kupferman

Creating a Space for You with Jessica Kupferman

If the universe doesn’t magically create a space that’s meant for you (because it won’t), you create it yourself. That’s exactly what Jessica Kupferman did when she and co-founder Elsie Escobar started She podcasts back in 2013 and 2014. After noticing that a lot of podcasters were men and “gurus” who were just interviewing one another, they decided they wanted to do something different.

Fast forward to today, Jessica and She Podcasts is still growing, hosting an active Facebook group, live conferences, a coaching program, a new 501(c)3, and a host of other ventures.

This was such a fun conversation about living up to our parents’ (and society’s) expectations, gaining visibility online, attending in-person conferences, making a space for yourself, why nothing has to be perfect, and so much more.

Listen in!

Mentioned in This Episode Podcast

About Jessica Kupferman

Jessica Kupferman is an award-winning podcaster and co-founder of the She Podcasts brand, which currently supports 10s of thousands of women podcasters to get and keep their voices out in the world. Her sweet spot is helping podcasters set up systems for growth and training them on how to obtain sponsorship. She also is an internet “Bat Girl” with an odd amount of experience in way too many software services.

When she’s not planning the next She Podcasts LIVE, you can find her offering education to independent podcasters on marketing, growth, and sponsorship in the She Podcasts membership. Learn more at shepodcasts.com.

Transcript

Abby Herman 0:08
Hey there, and welcome to episode 233 of The Content Experiment Podcast, a podcast for service driven business owners who know that content is important. But there’s so much more to marketing and business growth. Here we talk about showing up for your audience in a way that they want to hear and in a way that’s sustainable for you. This might mean publishing a weekly podcast or blog. But it also means paying attention to your email list, leveraging other people’s audiences, building relationships, and getting over the limiting mindsets that often hit when we’re reaching for the next level in our business.

Abby Herman 0:44
I’m Abby Herman, content strategist and podcast manager for business owners who want to make their marketing feel easier and more streamlined, so they can get back to serving their clients and making those sales. I’ll show you how, or I’ll do it for you will you do business in a way that works for you, I can help by supporting you through building a content and marketing strategy, taking care of the podcast management for you, or giving you the tools and resources to take this on yourself. You may or may not know this already. But I started my podcast because I surveyed my audience. And that’s how they wanted to consume content. From very early on, I recognized that I was hearing the same people on podcasts over and over and over again. And I didn’t need or want to hear from the same people. I wanted to hear new ideas from fresh voices, who hadn’t already done all the rounds. I feel like I’ve done a good job of that of finding a diverse group of people to share their expertise. And hopefully, I get just a little bit of visibility as a result. I personally think that this week’s podcast guest is a pretty big name in the podcast space, but I haven’t heard her all over the place. And she they talk about this about finding new voices and, and really getting new ideas out there. And since I’ve already attended this week’s guests conference once and we’ll be attending again in just a few weeks, I was thrilled when in one of her regular weekly emails. She said she was looking to be on more podcasts. I mean, that’s a really non sleazy pitch if I ever saw one. So I jumped on it and emailed her with some things I wanted to talk to her about.

Abby Herman 2:29
This episode is the result of that. We talk about getting into podcasting, creating community live events, live podcasts, and so much more. And I hope that you enjoy this conversation with Jessica Kupferman of she podcasts as much as I did. But before we get to the interview and the conversation, let me tell you a little bit about Jessica. Jessica Kupferman is an award winning podcaster and co founder of the she podcast brand, which currently supports 10s of 1000s of women podcasters. To get their voices out in the world. Her sweet spot is helping podcasters set up systems for growth and training them on how to obtain sponsorship. She also is an internet BAP girl with an odd amount of experience in way too many software services. When she’s not planning the next she podcasts live, you can find her offering education to independent podcasters on marketing growth and sponsorship in that she podcast membership. Learn more at shepodcast.com. And now our conversation.

Abby Herman 3:39
Jessica, thank you so much for joining me today. I am so incredibly excited to have you here.

Jessica Kupferman 3:46
I’m very excited to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Abby Herman 3:48
Yeah, um, can you share for listeners what you do and who you do it for?

Jessica Kupferman 3:52
Yeah. Um, I am the co founder of She Podcasts, which is a free online Facebook community for women and non binary people who want to start and grow and achieve goals with a podcast. And it started almost 10 years ago, and it has grown to 21,000 women. And then in 2019, we did a conference, our first conference in Atlanta. And then when the pandemic happened, we did a membership and then this year, we’re doing all the things we are getting ready to do a network and we’ve launched a separate 501 C three call it the Empowered voice initiative to help support women who may not be able to afford the services that an education that’s out there for podcasters. So

Abby Herman 4:42
Wow, that’s great. I didn’t realize that you had the 501 C three.

Jessica Kupferman 4:45
It’s like it’s happened last week.

Abby Herman 4:47
Oh, exciting.

Jessica Kupferman 4:48
Yeah, I know, that’s good.

Abby Herman 4:50
So you kind of already went into this a little bit, but I always ask. I always ask guests about the work that they do, how they work with clients and how the way that you work with your clients helps you to live the lifestyle that you want.

Jessica Kupferman 5:05
Oh, that’s such a good question. So before I was into podcasts, I was a graphic and web designer. And I started that because I hate working for other people it detest it with a passion. I’m also not very good at it, I have that. Now they call it rejection sensitivity, disorder, dysfunction, something like that. At the time, I was just like, I used to just feel like I was completely paranoid, every job I went to that every time they talk to me I’m going to be fired. For no reason,

Abby Herman 5:32
Oh my God, I have that

Jessica Kupferman 5:34
For no good reason at all, just constant paranoia. So it wasn’t worth the stress. So I started my own. You know, and I, and I did, basically projects, you know, design projects. And then when I started, she podcasts we did, we’ve done online courses and in person workshops we’ve done. And then I do you know, hourly consulting, I’ve done lots of years of, you know, people picking my brain for X amount of dollars, or even having like a series of meetings with me so that they could build a system or figure out some products that they could sell, like online courses, things like that. So all different ways. I haven’t done at all Yeah, yeah, we like to try lots of stuff.

Abby Herman 6:14
Yes. And so how does that so tell me a little bit about your lifestyle and how the way that you run your business helps you to live the lifestyle you want. Because I mean, I quit my day, I was a teacher, I quit my day job because I wanted to be able to go to the bathroom what I wanted, I wanted to be able to I wanted to make my own schedule. So are you able to do that and what you do?

Jessica Kupferman 6:34
Yeah, so I’ve had my own business, except for a few contracts here. And there. I’ve had my own business since 2004. And my older children had a lot of like, they were just constantly getting calls from middle school and high school, about their behavior. They both had IEP 504 for different reasons. My my younger My middle child who’s is like Asperger’s and ADHD, my older one had some pretty severe anxiety and then later boarder borderline personality. So really, after a while, I kind of had to have my own business because I kept having to leave work. And I worked in Philly, which is about 45 minutes away, and it was just getting crazy. But I you know, the lifestyle now is I have, you know, a little one that lives with me, he’s eight and my older son lives with his dad. And yeah, we’re able, I’m able to create my own schedule, I’m able to go in and do PTA stuff with him if I want my husband and I can, you know, like volunteer for things. Stuff that you can’t do when you when you don’t when you work for someone else, but also the stress. I can also go back to sleep if I need to. I can also like cook in the middle of the day to get ready for dinner if I want. Yeah, it’s it’s to me, it’s, I mean, it’s much nicer. I also grew up with a parent who had their own business like and I think, I think when you see your parent, the breadwinner, making their own schedule their own hours having employees like, it’s kind of weird to do the opposite at least what I’m learning. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Do you ever really, you know, that person and if they don’t have a boss, and you do, it’s like, obviously, I don’t know, there’s something in me that felt like I wasn’t like us, or we were talking about pleasing our parents are something in me that felt like I wouldn’t truly get respect until I was doing something similar, which is probably horse pucky. But in my head.

Abby Herman 8:26
My dad was a business owner. Also for most of a good chunk of my childhood. I don’t the opposite way. I felt like I had to go out and get a job and do all of the things just like the work ethic that I learned from him is like he I believe that he saw his business as it was his job. It was yeah, he went to a job every day. And just because he happened to be the boss. And so I feel like like I was expected to go out and do the thing. And I think my parents, I’ll hit my actually, right around when this episode comes out, I’ll hit my 10 year anniversary, doing my business full time. And I know that when I left. When I left my teaching job, I think that my parents were like, Oh, my God.

Jessica Kupferman 9:12
money for school. Right, like, Yeah, I mean, and that’s true. They do expect you to go out and get a job. But I think that’s because no one worked from home. Right? In their whole job. Absolutely. So yeah, you I’m sure he did expect me to go out and get a job. But when I did start working from home, and it still kind of baffles, like, like, I did an email a couple of weeks ago where I was like, here, I’m gonna I’ll give you 90 minutes and my time for I think was like $500. And my dad saw that email and he called me with my stepbrother. They were driving around and he goes, did anyone actually like pay you that? I’m like, Yeah, I got like five clients out of he was like, I swear they almost gotten an accident. They were like, What are you saying? And I was like, listen, it’s not that much of a surprise that I’m this smart, intelligent. I felt like they were just like no one would ever pay for your opinion, money for your opinion. They could not believe it was even It was even a possibility I blow their faces off. That’s fine. So they still don’t you know, it’s still like that where they don’t quite understand how you can be successful and never leave the house. But

Abby Herman 10:15
I want to talk about a lot of things today, but one of the things that I hate it Yes, one of the things I want to start with is podcasting. So, because that’s kind of what you’re Yeah, cuz I mean, you kind of know a few things about podcasting, and you’ve built a whole business around it, and you have conferences about it. So what made you start in the podcasting industry? What did where did that come from?

Jessica Kupferman 10:37
A need for attention. And, and I wasn’t getting enough I was your power and glory, maybe? No, I, I was, like I said, I had a graphic and web design business. And I wanted it to gain more online attention so that I could stop working for local businesses here, I wanted to maybe start doing more projects and smaller. I wanted to be like a one to many type of business. And one of the ways I thought would be cool to grow, would be on podcasts. My friend had me on her podcast, and I was hooked immediately because I was a kid that used to pretend that I was like, late night talk show host like I used to pretend I was Joan Rivers and Johnny Carson. So this felt like that to me, where she was the Johnny vagina. And I was like, no, no, this has to be me. I want to be the host of my own. It’s felt so cool to me. So first, I started looking for other shows to be on. And then I realized, like, okay, so most of the business shows for entrepreneurs were, like them interviewing each other. It was like the more well known, like Marie Forleo, Amy Porterfield, Lewis, Howes, and so on and so forth. And I just figured, Well, why would they have me on because I don’t know that I’m not in that circle, and they seem to only be interviewing each other. So that’s what made me decide to start because it’s like, I know all these women with these amazing stories about how they’re balancing work and life and, and how they, you know, and with each person, I would just, I just pretended, I don’t wanna say Howard Stern, because he he’s kind of a divisive character, but I really admire his interview skills. And so I would sort of be like the pusher of needing I want the tea, give me the tea, like, no, seriously, how do you set up this system? Where money just comes to you out of nowhere? How do you go on a book tour when you have a three year old? Like, who said you are allowed to do that? You know what I mean?

Jessica Kupferman 12:22
Like, I would ask questions that I thought the audience that I really wanted to know about how to like, make my own life better. And so that’s how I started it was Lady Business Radio In 2013. And then she podcast sort of started about six months later, because I met LC at an event and then they, she and about six other women ended up to be they ended up giving me much more valuable information advice, support, then the most of the Guru’s for podcasting back then were men. And they just weren’t, it wasn’t, wasn’t the kind of information I was looking for. And so I realized, like, go ahead.

Abby Herman 12:59
Well, I was gonna say, I mean, I think too, because what you said, like the Guru’s are all interviewing each other. And I totally agree. And from my perspective, is they forget what it’s like to be, you know, the brand new business owner or the, you know, six, six figure, not multi seven figure business, they forget what it’s like. And they’re no longer working in the weeds. They have teams, so they’re so far outside. Yeah, they’re so far on the outside of all of it, that they don’t know what it looks like to actually build that anymore. And so, I love that you did that. I tried to do that, too, where I try to get new voices, people who really do have expertise, but they just aren’t a guru. They’re not the person who’s making the multimillion dollar person, right. Like they’re not Yeah, it doesn’t have to be the most well known person, it can be the person who has the greatest value to offer.

Jessica Kupferman 13:56
Yeah. Now, I think everyone has an interesting story. People are fascinating. Their backstories are fascinating. And there’s, you know, their success, and actually their failures are much more interesting. I find but yeah. I love a good failure story.

Abby Herman 14:11
Where do you find your you know, the people that you connect with? And with you being on podcast to how do you how do you find people to connect with that way? Is it all through your community?

Jessica Kupferman 14:23
This time around? Yeah, this I yeah, I sent an email asking if anyone wanted to have me on their show. And a couple you know, enough people said yes, I was very excited. I asked the community because I think that they have in regardless of what your topic is for your show. Those people who are women who are already listening to podcasts may somewhere in their head be thinking, I wonder if I could start my own one of these and so most of the people that I’d like to meet and support and have attend the event and things like that, so yes, it was mostly for from the community and from our speakers and people that I that I knew were already coming.

Abby Herman 15:06
And the answer to the question was, if I could I wonder if I can start something like that? The answer is yes. Yes you can,

Speaker 2 15:12
Yes you can. it’s a lot easier than it looks like it looks like very looks very technical, because there’s a lot of steps. But those steps are pretty easy. Like most podcast hosts make it very easy. It’s like, put in the title, put in the description, put in your tags, upload the thing and you’re done. Like, just looks very technical. But it’s deceiving. I think don’t yeah.

Abby Herman 15:32
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And you don’t have to spend a ton of money on equipment to do it either. Like, I think my microphone is less than $100. And, you know, you just spend a little bit of money on your host, and it’s not expensive to start.

Jessica Kupferman 15:47
Yeah, my first one, my first mic that I bought was an ATR 2100. It’s like 70 bucks. Which, you know, I mean, before that, I think it was like a Blue Yeti, but LC made me throw it away. Like that I was she it didn’t sound good. Anyway, I’m barely gonna remember to turn it on. It was terrible. But, um, but yeah, it’s not expensive. And it’s not difficult. And you can edit yourself. I mean, both. I think all kinds of computers come with a software that’s free that you can edit your own audio. And it’s a lot easier than you think you just have to, I think some people just need to be shown those steps, specifically, what we try to do?

Abby Herman 16:21
Yes, I agree. So let’s talk about the live event and how that fits into the overall business model. So the first live event you said was in 2018, I attended the one in 2021. You know, right in your backyard? Yes. Because it was like literally across town. For me, it was perfect. Now I get to go across the country to go to but I’m making I’m making an event of it, I’m actually going to another event, just before it so I’ll still just gonna stay over and do some traveling. So, so shared a little bit about the about the event. Why, like, I’ve never planned an in person event. But I saw the one in 2021 that you said it was I saw on your website, you said it was toned down, it was a good event, it was very well organized, like so. Tell me why Why’d start the in person, community.

Jessica Kupferman 17:17
So, um, when I started in 2019, we had already so in 2014 Podcast Movement was born, which was the first podcast conference that I knew of, maybe it was right around the same time, pod fest, also started. And they’re lovely events. And the and the creators of the events are very good friends of mine. And I thought they were great. When we would go to those events I’ll see. And I we would either do a workshop or have a meet up or have a lunch or something. And never felt like enough time to to like schmooze with those people. And so I thought, well, what what would be better than making our own event, but actually people started asking me for like, I was kind of toying toying with it. And then you know, I would talk about it on the show. And then someone would be like, you’ve got to do that you have to have, we need our own event. So I did a Kickstarter, because I was like, well, if I’m gonna do this, like you guys have to pledge to come now, before I get a hotel, I’m not putting my neck out there doing anything like that. And they did they, I did a Kickstarter for 25,000. And we raised 15, which was enough to secure the Marriott Marquis in Atlanta. And then we got some sponsors, and it worked out really great, like 750 tickets sold, and it was amazing. And then four months later, there was a pandemic. And so that made things quite difficult to be lucrative the second time around, however, it within those four months, I’d already signed a contract with another hotel, so I couldn’t exactly get out of it, even though there was a pandemic. And because it was in Arizona, there was a long time they were they weren’t really having any kind of like, admittance, that there was a pandemic,

Abby Herman 18:48
we make our own rules in Arizona, I don’t know if you know a lot about

Jessica Kupferman 18:53
between March and May of 2020. I spent a lot of time on the phone trying to convince the person that it wasn’t safe to come there. Finally, in May you guys got your own cases. And finally, he was like, Okay, well let you postpone it a year. And that’s what I did. Yeah. But yeah, that was tricky. Very tricky. And then, but yeah, we we lost money on that one, not because it was in Arizona, but just because it was sort of during ish. It was 2021 was still I don’t think people were quite ready yet. And this time, we decided Washington, DC because I I’m from there. I live close to them about two hours away. And I just thought it would be easier than having to fly, fly back and forth, back and forth to plan things go to site visits, and things like that. But yeah, we originally we did it, because I was asked to do it. And because I thought it would be fun. I thought I could make it much more fun of an event than the other two. Not that it’s a competition. But I wanted it to be you know, I thought well, how how would it be different from a woman’s point of view? Well, we would certainly start later, because women who are away from their babies don’t need to be getting up at six in the morning. It’s just nuts. And then I thought, Well, what about women’s shaped T shirts? What about the fact that I Anything is navy blue and orange. What about the fact that you know, like just the aesthetic, the food that I thought that the, you know a lot of those. At first those conferences were having the same guys speak every time because they were VP of this here or VP of that there. And then you know when you do that you never give anyone else a chance to show their expertise. Especially if that person is a woman or person of color. It just started irk me, the more years I went, and since then, you know, I, you know, again, I’m not shy. So I was pretty outspoken about why I was creating my own. And since then those creators have like, really changed and adapted with what they were missing, which kudos to them for that. Not a lot of women shape T shirts, though, or size t shirts. So I still went on that one. And also, you know, flowers and parties where you don’t have to go to a sports bar and scream at each other over a DJ like I just wanted a different experience a relaxing, unintimidating experience. So people could learn and ask questions and feel enriched instead of exam. I was left exhausted with no voice, headache, and I could barely walk, you know, like, I mean, just from having fun, but it was exhausting. And so I also wanted to do a show that made people feel ready to take on the world when they were done. And not that they had sleep for a week, you know what I mean?

Abby Herman 21:20
Yes, yes. And I mean, you know, as someone who went to the last one, it was definitely a different vibe than some of the other different overall just feeling than some of the other conferences that I’ve been to I found that people were the people there were very supportive, and like truly interested in getting to know you and your business, and, you know, finding ways to connect even even my introverted self that wanted to hide all the time.

Jessica Kupferman 21:52
That’s wonderful. That actually, that actually comes from the group itself. I think, somehow soon, I’ve curated that vibe in there. And it just spills over to real life where people are very respectful, supportive, and, you know, can ask and answer questions without being combative. It’s really nice there. Yeah. Women are, the people in our community are just amazing. Yeah.

Abby Herman 22:14
Well, let’s talk about the Facebook group. So I’m in the Facebook group, too. And again, you know, I love I do love the community piece. So why was but this the Facebook group was built well, before. I’ve even thought about doing the live event. So what was your reasoning behind that? Because I know. So I am hitting my 10 year anniversary of being in business full time, when I first left my day job, I found community in Facebook groups, I built my business off of Facebook groups in the beginning. For a long time, like that just didn’t happen. Like recently that doesn’t happen anymore.

Jessica Kupferman 22:58
How was the same way?

Abby Herman 23:00
No, not at all. How is your community different? And, and, you know, what do you hope that people get out of it?

Jessica Kupferman 23:07
I mean, I know it’s a different experience than when I first started. When I first started, it was six women that I wanted to specifically ask questions of, they were more experienced than me. Some of them were veterans, like grammar girl who I met at an event LLC, an LLC knew a lot more women, so she just asked to add more. And then it was like 100 women, and then a couple months or two later was 500 women. And then I went on maternity when I came back, it was 1500 women, and now it’s 20,000 women, which is amazing. And I’m very grateful. But yeah, I didn’t necessarily mean for it to be what it is. Now, I just I through a minor amount of leadership and some, you know, specific direction, I think from ALC. And I, we’ve been able to curate a group of people that really can, I want to say monitor themselves because it doesn’t always work. But we have a very long list of rules, stuff you can and can’t talk about, when you can promote yourself, when you can ask for guests. We don’t want it to become like a long stream of nonsense. So we created a lot of rules around that so that people would enjoy being in there. And that has not changed over the years, which is great. So we have some rules and some ways of of doing that. It’s not a group where you could build a business the way that we did that. Because you can’t I mean, you can you just have to be smart. So like if I were, for example, an editor, I would go in the group and look at every editing question, answer those questions, and then be like, if you need help, just DM me, and that’s how I would get business and that’s how I got business for my graphic and web design business in 2010 2011. So you can do it you just have to be sly, and really people who just do like a hey, I’m an editor if anyone needs anything that’s just lazy anyway. Yeah. No one gets to know you. No one, you know, and also people really want to promote their show in the group and Listen, we’re creators, we don’t necessarily listen to podcasts. So it’s also not your not your best place to, you’re not gonna get much out of it. Basically, if you’re just posting in a shoe podcast group about your podcast, it’s like, I don’t know. Like, it’s like teaching. It’s like trying to Yeah, trying to get people to come to a recital, when they’re all tapped answers like, you know, so

Abby Herman 25:22
you do have a, you do have rules in in the group, but I don’t feel like I would never have said, you have a lot of rules. There’s a lot of guidelines, a lot of things that you need to follow. Because I never would say that, but you do. And I think that that’s a good thing. I think that people just naturally, you know, maybe it’s like a shift in perspective, where, you know, we’re not going to be sleazy in this group or, but you do have you have clear prompts that people still post and ask questions and look for support. And I think that’s where the community is really built is in people’s ability to go in and ask questions and to not feel like they’re judged by others, because I don’t you know, I don’t spend a tiniest part. Yeah, I don’t spend a ton of time in there. But when I do, I feel like everybody’s very supportive. And I think that that’s not unfortunately, that’s not very common anymore.

Jessica Kupferman 26:16
Yeah. How do we create a such a big group of women with no drama? That often boggles my mind? Because the will the mom groups are just made for drama, I think but, you know, there are other groups like, like, this is a small example. But like, I use these eyelashes that are called lash Rifai. And there’s a group just for people who use them, because it’s kind of tricky. They don’t they’re not glue on, you kind of have to like put like a polymer and then use anyway, it’s tricky to put them on. So there’s a whole group and people are in there showing each other their techniques and like posting pictures of their eye, and what can I do different? It’s pretty nice. I mean, it’s nice that it’s also drama free and very supportive. It’s a small part of your life is your eyelashes, right? But it’s annoying when you get it wrong. So, so this is also I think, not a part of your life. That’s like, you know, podcasting is like something lots of people do on the side. It’s not, it’s very rarely the person’s full time job, even if they may want it to be. So I think in that same sense, there’s no, there’s no like, urgency, emergency desperation, at least. If there is it’s usually taken care of right away by the other people who are like, Yeah, I know how this feels, here’s what you need to do. Don’t panic, everything is fine. Here’s what you do, because because those things do feel panicky, you know, when, especially if it’s tech people get like, all all wigged out about tech and digital stuff I learned as a graphic and web designer never to freak out about tech, like, like, it’s always erasable, re rewind, double fixable. So there’s not really any reason to ever, like get super hyped up if your episodes missing or if your post didn’t go out. Just do it later, you know?

Abby Herman 28:01
Yes. Because inevitably, something will go wrong. Always.

Speaker 2 28:05
Just expect it and try and hit it off with the past.

Abby Herman 28:10
But the best part is when the email goes out announcing the episode and the episode did not actually publish. Yeah. Easy. Stuff happens. Yeah, like pieces of tech break. And, and it’s not an emergency. It’s okay. Speaking of tech and going wrong, you record your podcast live. Yes, we do. Can we talk about that? Because I was telling you before the before we hit record, the idea of doing that just really freaks me out. Even I mean, every other episode of mine is a solo episode. So I mean, even the thought of doing that live, and it’s I script my solo episodes to anybody. But I mean, the idea of doing it live just completely freaks me out. Can you share why, like, what is the why behind it being live?

Jessica Kupferman 29:03
I mean, I think there’s a couple reasons at first, I mean, Elsie and I, the way that we’ve made money is always kind of been throw spaghetti at the wall. So when we started doing live streaming, it was because it was relatively new. We just wanted to see what would happen. How would it work? What do you do? Sometimes we started doing stuff just for the purpose of teaching other people how to do it, because we don’t know how to do it yet. But then after a while, it became fun, because you have I mean, I’m good with a live audience, I perform better under that kind of stress, I think sharper when I’m under the gun like that. So even if it’s just one or two people and LLC, I work better with an audience. So I enjoy that part of it. I also think it’s important to show podcasters that you may have a perfect end result, but in no way is that profit is that process perfect. So a lot of times, you know, during the show, I have to stop what I say and then talk to me, you know, I wait a minute so that you can see there’s a break in the audio and then I say listen, John, you’re Gonna have to fix this or edit this out or let me start again. I often mess up the intro and the outro because I’m talking really fast. So, you know, but I need I’d want people to see that that’s normal that it’s not a big deal that they don’t suck that everyone does. You know, everyone does flub pretty much every time they record.

Abby Herman 30:22
Can you talk through like, kind of the process of of what it looks like? Yeah, you know, through the recording live and then doing the the edits before it gets published?

Jessica Kupferman 30:34
Yeah, so So over the weekend, LLC, and I will put topics that we want to discuss on a mutual Kanban board. And then the morning of the show, we meet about a half hour before we start recording, and kind of like sometimes we don’t even get to it. But we’re supposed to be discussing what we’re talking about on the show which thing we want to talk about in which order what things to take off and keep on, then we hit record, we record what’s called a double ender, where she does we even though we’re recording on stream yard, I’m recording my own side in Adobe Audition. And so is she. And those are the recordings that go to our editor when, like, as soon as I’m done, when I hit Save as it is saved into a folder that he can go and retrieve it and edit it. The stream yard version is backup just in case something happens, which can happen. So yeah, so we always have a backup. And we always have our own individual conversations. We have a person who watches who works for she podcast, who watches the show, as we’re doing it live jots down notes, like bullet points. And then when the show’s over, goes back and fills in if anything needs context, she sends that to LC for approval, because I don’t care what they look like. And then our editor will send the entire thing to LC for approval, because I don’t also don’t care what it sounds like. So I mean, I’m just not that I don’t care, I want it to sound good, but I don’t, I don’t really have much invested in what whether they left something out or you know, like, when I did my first show, I never edited it at all, I would have to go pee, the cat would be meowing like I didn’t care. So. So like I still, I’m still sort of like that. And plus I’m doing other stuff. So. So that’s all done. And then the final piece, the audio goes back to Melissa, who took the notes, she publishes it on Fridays. So you can either watch it and hear it live on Mondays, or you can hear the final result on Fridays.

Abby Herman 32:23
So on Mondays, who, where is it being streamed to? Is that just in the Facebook group? Or I’ve never actually watched it live into it at the end? So I’m not sure like, where is it going.

Jessica Kupferman 32:35
So the free version of streaming, I will allow you to stream in three places. So I usually do YouTube and LinkedIn. And then we either choose the group or the page, depending on what I think today we did the page, but we kind of switch it up just to see where we can get the biggest. I mean, we never have more than 10 people hardly ever considering it’s a 21,000 person group. Like it doesn’t appeal to all of them. We even send a reminder email like, Hey, if you want to come watch us, come watch us. But we rarely get a big audience when we do get some and and I think that part’s fine. But yeah, so we just choose three channels. You can upgrade for to stream in more places if you wanted, but we haven’t really, again, it’s just been an experiment. So we haven’t really thought much about where we need to stream. Yeah, play with it. We just kind of play with it. I love that you

Abby Herman 33:22
Yeah, that you try out different things. And yeah, that’s kind of keep people on their toes to.

Jessica Kupferman 33:27
Some of it is, you know, I mean, some of it is to like to learn ourselves, some of it is I think it’s helpful to watch other people screw up so you can learn it together. No, that’s kind of why we do it. I mean, just so that people can watch and see what they have to do in order to get it to work for them.

Abby Herman 33:43
Yes, I love that. Yes. So you’ve said something a couple of times that I want to talk about. You said it a couple a couple of different ways. But you said you’d like kind of throwing spaghetti on the wall. And yeah, Letterman ting with different things. And you have tried out so many different things. So I’m not pushing back, but I wanted like because that’s not that’s not normal, right? Like we’re told to, we have to do things a certain way. You need to stay in your lane, you need to pick something, pick a niche, you know, whatever. And so I’m curious, because I love I mean, this is the content experiment, after all. And I believe that you should be trying out different things. And you should be doing different things in your business to see what works for you as the business owner, which I think it’s your business. And I think that’s primary, and what works for your audience and your clients and customers and all of that. So can you share a little bit about like, maybe some of the things that you’ve tried, I’d love to hear like a failure story like, oh, there’s, like crashed and burned. But I would also love to know like, how do you decide what you’re going to try? And how do you measure whether you Know the results to decide if it’s something you’re gonna continue. So I was like eight questions and once

Jessica Kupferman 35:06
I love it, so Okay, so first Okay, so let’s start with the, the last ones. The way we decide is we we talk, like I said, we do a half hour show before we get started. And sometimes we go, Hey, would you mind if one of these times we try this or that or when we’re done? Can we try this or that? And then we just do it like, I don’t think I’ve ever said no to her. I don’t think she’s ever said no to me. When it comes to like our business. We, our very first workshop that we did was in Dallas, that Podcast Movement, and we had everyone pay for lunch. And then we ordered lunch from a restaurant without knowing that you’re not allowed to bring outside food and beverages into the hotel. So the manager showed up in the middle of lunch and made everyone throw it away as they were eating it. That was fun. Oh my god, Billy, I don’t even know what to say to them. And then one time, we wanted to do a meet up in Podcast Movement in Chicago. And so we wanted to give them a brunch, and it was a certain amount of money. And the restaurant had a minimum of like $5,000. And I couldn’t get enough people to come to the lunch to make. So we had to cancel it and refund everything. And that was humiliating as well. You know, and I’ve had to postpone my, this conference TWICE, Like I postponed 2020 to 2021. And I postponed 2022 into 2023. Because I either miscalculated what it would cost or miscalculated people’s desire to leave the house. Like those are both two pretty big failures. I think so. Yeah. I mean, the thing that gets me to try stuff, or like you said to just be like, No, I’m gonna do things a different ways, is just oppositional defiance. Like, I hate being told what to do and how to do it. And in fact, if someone tells me I have to do something, one way, I instantly start thinking of how to get around that rule. Just naturally. I mean, that. I mean, I don’t know that my parents would be like, she was so difficult, because I don’t think that I was, but I do not like being told how to do things. And I, and especially with my older children, as they were going through like middle school in high school, like I kind of was like, like one time like, okay, like my, my son’s first day kindergarten, my middle son, I got called from them. So he was kind of he had ADHD, and he was kind of a Hellion. In preschool. We had a lot of like, issues getting him to like, sit still and not run around and stuff. So when the kindergarten teacher was like, Nathan, we’ll take his hood off. He’s insisting on wearing his hood. And one of the rules is that we don’t allow children to wear a hood. I’m like he’s for Call me back when he’s throwing scissors, Kay, I don’t care about the hood rule. Like I don’t care. You’ve called the wrong mama. This is dumb. Don’t waste my time with this nonsense. I don’t care. And I probably didn’t teach them how to respect rules. But But I what I want to teach them is like, think for yourself. If something doesn’t make sense, there’s a reason why use your own logic to figure out if something’s broken. And then if you can’t fix it for everyone, at least fix it for yourself, even if that means having your own business instead of working for other people. So that you can go to the bathroom when and how you want. Yes, I know. That’s, that’s that makes no sense. Like, I know, there’s rules about leaving children in the classroom and stuff like that. But yeah, there’s a lot that just makes no sense anymore. I’m starting to notice with even just like, like we were talking about, like being expected to go get a job like that makes no sense now, right? When your parents hit the pavement, that is the absolute worst advice, you cannot just walk into somewhere and be like, I need a job. Because they’ll be like, well, they’re not here. Once you send an email, what the hell are you doing here? Like, you know, can’t do that anymore? And there’s, there are so many miniscule versions of that all around you. Doctor’s offices are a perfect example. Why am I filling out four forms? And all of them asked for my name and address and phone number and, and contact? Why do you not have a digital system for that information? And then if you want me to go online, and check this, and that to say that I don’t have diabetes, and I’ve never had surgery, whatever it is, and then also don’t make me updated every time I come because it’s just a waste of paper. I could go on and on about these things that annoy me that I can’t do anything about that just opposition. Surely I’m like, I’m not doing it. I’m not filling it in again, staple this one to that one. I don’t care. I will not write it four times. You can’t make me.

Abby Herman 39:29
No, yeah, no, I agree that there are a lot of a lot of things that we could do differently. And I think a lot of the problem is that there it’s not somebody from the outside. It’s somebody internally making the decisions and not evaluating the decision.

Jessica Kupferman 39:44
They just don’t reevaluate ever. And so it just ends up being like a long string of nonsense for no good reason. Yes, I agree. Yeah. So So I mean, yeah, so throwing spaghetti against the wall is me being just impatient and like, what if we do it this way? What if we do it this way? I’m bored with this. Let’s try this now. It’s just me, like satisfying my own curiosity and willingness to blow everything up for I guess,

Abby Herman 40:11
how long will you stick with something that you’re not sure if it’s working? So you said you’re impatient? Did Oh, same? How long? Do you try something out or make little, little tweaks? Before you decide this isn’t gonna work? Like a couple months? I think. Yeah. Which I think is totally fair. I think that yes, trying something out once or twice? No, you should try it out a couple of months before you decide to make a change.

Jessica Kupferman 40:39
Well, well, like having a membership is a perfect example of that, like, we started a membership. And the idea was that I would put new content in there every week, well, I cannot keep up with that. Plus, no one is even really looked at the traffic, the web traffic and like, most of it’s not even being watched or read. So what am I killing myself with new content for every week, and it’s not being looked at at all? So I just, you know, so like, I started noticing after I missed a week or two, and I’m just like, you know, are they even looking at this? Because if they’re not, I’m not going to kill myself doing it. And then I changed it. And then I, you know, or like the QA, like, oh, you know, oh, we should really do something where they get to talk to us once a week. Let’s try a QA and should we do it together? Should we do it apart? We just kind of fool with it until it works. Or dump it when it doesn’t?

Abby Herman 41:22
Yeah. Yes. I love that. It’s freedom. Yes. And that’s what we get to do because it’s our business. Yes, yes. Yes. Right. Well, so before we wrap up, I want to ask, if somebody’s thinking about starting a podcast, or maybe they have one, and they’re looking for ways to grow, what are some two actionable things you would suggest for them?

Jessica Kupferman 41:49
Well, I mean, something you can do from home for sure is if you’re thinking about starting a podcast, but you’re not sure, open a Google Doc or a spreadsheet, and make a list of all the possible topics. Because I think sometimes people are just like, I don’t know if there’s going to be enough things. But once you get going, that list can get really long. And then when you have like 2015 ideas, because like, for example, if you’re a life coach and you put fear, then you realize you can be like fear of being seen fear of public speaking fear of leaving the house fear of having children like there, it just could go on and on. And you’re like, Oh, my God, this could be a show for five years. That’s how many topics you have. So that’s a really good way of figuring out like, do you actually have something to say about these things? It’s a really helpful exercise. And then, you know, like learning how to do it. Like when I started my podcast, I downloaded a $5 book off Amazon, I don’t even know if it’s certainly not relevant anymore, because the Tech has completely changed. But I like step by step instructions, wherever you can get that like we have a membership where you can get that she podcast live is an event that’s coming up, like you said, Washington, DC this summer. And there will be sessions where, you know, you will have editing instructions or social media, you know how to start doing this the right way, the right way to in quotes, how to start monetizing, how to prepare yourself for better interviews, things like that. I think it’s really valuable to know exactly the next thing you want to learn to go to the next level, and then seek that only that information out master and then go to the next thing, small tasks to meet a bigger goal.

Abby Herman 43:19
Yes, and I would add to that to letting go of the perfection and needing for it to be totally perfect, because it’s not going to be and that’s okay,

Jessica Kupferman 43:28
people forget that it doesn’t have to be perfect. And then in fact, I’ll just tell you right now, the first 50 shows will stink, they will not be good. You will hate them later. lean into it. Right. And like, it’s like when you’re traveling via plane. At some point, you will be waiting around with your thumb up your you know what, for some stupid reason, and just expect it now. And therefore when it happens, you won’t care. This is the same thing. Right? Your first 50 shows trash. Yeah, but we don’t throw them away. Because we have to evolve. We have to get better. We have to try things we have to forget to turn on my microphone on we have to forget to hit record, because that ensures it doesn’t happen again. Yeah. Right. So So I mean, yeah, it’s just give it all away the idea that it’s going to be perfect, it will not you will have to redo something that’s why our our event has a refined track most things it’s like, great, you know, it’s like start grow and monetize. But I have a whole track of like tweaking like the refinery of my brands not right. I hate my co host this topic is all wrong. Can I put travel in with childcare and talk about both of them together? Like there’s always like, I think there’s always a phase in the first year of like, this isn’t right. I don’t want to stop but what how do i What’s missing here and you not? Those things are like, you know, like I’m not getting good guests or you know all the things I mentioned before my brand looks like my kindergartener did it and I just need to fix these things and then I can go on to growing because you’re afraid to grow Oh, but you’re not in the starting point. That phase is important. So, yeah, it’s not going to be perfect. That’s okay. That’s okay. It’s kind of like art. It is art, in fact, and art is not supposed to be perfect. It’s supposed to be messy and an experimental.

Abby Herman 45:17
Oh, I love it. So much great information. Where can people find out more about the she podcast, but she podcasts live conference and just more about you.

Speaker 2 45:28
Shepodcasts.com If you want to go to the right to the conference pages she podcast live.com. and tickets are you now on sale. They’ll be on sale through June. And we’re doing giveaways like every week. And we’d love to see you there. If you’re thinking about doing a show. This is a really, really nice atmosphere, and environment to get started on your journey. I think people people leave, we try to make sure people leave feeling inspired and not overwhelmed. So

Abby Herman 45:58
thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 46:01
Thank you so much for having me. It has been delightful being on your show and talking to you. And thank you. So really for having me. It’s been it’s been great. I so appreciate it. Thank you.

Abby Herman 46:10
Thanks.

Abby Herman 46:12
Okay, my biggest takeaways from this conversation is first of all, I loved all the talk about experimenting with different things and content and business in general. It so aligns with everything that I like to talk about. Try new things, give it some time, make some tweaks and changes if needed, and keep on going. If you are attending the Shepodcasts conference in June, let me know I will be the one hiding in the corner. But I would really rather meet and connect with some of you. So let me know. And I will be on the lookout. And now after having this conversation with Jessica, I will be just a little less intimidated at the conference in a few weeks. Because the last one there was no way I was going to work up the courage to say hi to her and she and I actually had a conversation about that offline. If you found value in what you learned here today, be sure to share it on social media. Take a screenshot of the episode on your phone and share it on Instagram stories. You can tag me at thecontentexperiment or head over to LinkedIn and connect with me there and be sure to tell me that you found me on the podcast when you send the connection invite. The more you share this podcast with others the more we can get it into the hands and earbuds of more business owners just like you who need to hear the message that they are not alone. Until next time. Take care.

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