Email marketing is tough. It requires hard work, consistency, and a lot of strategy. When was the last time you emailed your list? Or better yet, got a solid return on your efforts?
Establishing a rapport with your audience via email is a powerful way to create genuine relationships without coming across as sleazy or annoying.
Today’s guest is Eman Ismail, an email conversion strategist, and copywriter and founder of InkHouse. She shares why you need nurturing emails for your business, how to develop a two-way conversation with your audience, how to get new subscribers on your list–and what to do next to build the relationship.
Be sure not to miss Eman at The Content Experiment Summit! She tells it like it is and your email audience will thank you for it! Sign up to get on the waiting list so you can be one of the first to register. Registration opens Feb. 26 for the waiting list. It’s coming up, so don’t miss out!
Tune in now!
Mentioned in This Episode
- Be your own Copywriter Course
- The Email Rules – the fast-track 35-minute mini-class that teaches you how to boost your conversions and sales through email.
- Bridgerton on Netflix
- Episode 100: The Content Experiment Podcast
- The Content Experiment Summit
About Eman Ismail
Eman Ismail is the person to call when you want to make money from your emails. As an email conversion strategist and copywriter (and the founder of inkhouse.org.uk) she helps 6+ figure online business owners and ecommerce brands fire up their conversions, evergreen their sales and turn fans into Superfans. When she’s not writing high-converting emails for clients, delivering workshops or teaching business owners how to write copy that converts, she’s binging on podcasts or pizza (but she’d rather you didn’t tell her PT that).
Following Eman and Inkhouse on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.
Transcription
Abby Herman
Hey there, and welcome to Episode 102 of the content experiment podcast, a podcast that supports the idea that content and marketing are ever moving targets in any business. And it’s okay if you don’t feel like you’re doing it. All right all of the time, you have permission to experiment with little tweaks and changes in your content, to find what works for you, what increases value for your audience, and what grows, your business, and most importantly, what feels good for you. I’m Abby Herman, content strategist and coach for online business owners who are ready to make a bigger impact online. I firmly believe that success isn’t about what big marketing brands and so called gurus think is the right thing. It’s about you and your business, your lifestyle, and frankly, your values and belief systems. You get to do business in a way that works for you. If you’re new to the podcast, I’m so glad that you’re here. I work really hard to bring you informative and to the point content because let’s face it, no one has time for fluff these days. If you like what you hear, hit the subscribe button so you don’t miss another episode. If you’ve been around a while, yes, you are in the right place. The stories and small business podcast changed looks and names with Episode 100 and I am thrilled to continue bringing you the same great content and guests under a new name. You can hear a lot more about the reason behind the change and the new name of the podcast and to my business on episode 100. If you haven’t left a rating or review yet, what are you waiting for? Leaving a rating and review helps Apple Spotify, Stitcher and all the other platforms and to me know that you like what you’re hearing and it helps to get the podcast in more earbuds and who doesn’t want that. On today’s episode I’m chatting with Eamon Ismail, an email conversion strategist and founder of Kaos I first came across him on on Instagram or I was looking for someone to talk on the content experiment summit about email marketing. What stood out to me is that Eamon doesn’t mess around she tells it like it is no fluff. And you know how I feel about fluff? I’m a no when it comes to fluff. But Eamon she is a Yes, she said yes to being a part of the summit. In addition to this episode, let me fill you in on at the summit. Before we get into the interview. The content experiment summit features 25 speakers and to me who are sharing little tweaks, coaches and course creators can make on their content and marketing to get a better ROI on their time in financial investments in content and marketing. Because maybe what you’re doing isn’t quite working for you. Either you’re confused about what to create, or what you’re creating. And publishing isn’t quite giving you the results that you want. Maybe you want to start using a new platform or tool but you don’t know how to do that. While we have you covered in the content experiment summit. The free summit features speakers on topics like designing a customer journey, monetizing your podcast, building authority with video tapping into your messaging, creating accessible content, developing engaging online events, getting found by Google serving your audience selling with affiliates, and so much more. And many of the speakers are people that you may not have heard from over and over and over again. I’m hoping to introduce you to new powerhouses that give you permission to do things just a little bit different. If you’ve been following me for a while you know that that is really important to me. You can sign up for the waiting list right now at to the content experiment summit.com slash summit. Registration for the waiting list begins February 26. And if you are wondering who the speakers will be, well, everyone who has been on the podcast since the first of this year is on the speaker lineup, along with today’s guest, Eamon Ismail. In our conversation, Eamon shares why you need nurturing emails for your business, how to develop a two way conversation in the inbox, how to get new subscribers on your list and what to do next to build the relationship. If you can’t remember the last time you emailed your list, or if you’re not getting a return on your email marketing efforts, this episode is for you. Let me tell you a little bit more about Eamon. Before we get into the interview, Eamon is the person to call when you want to make money from your emails. As an email conversion strategist and copywriter and the founder of ink house.org. uk. She helps six plus figure online business owners and e commerce brands. Up there conversions, evergreen their sales and turn fans into superfans. She has worked with powerhouses like Emily Thompson from being boss, Joanna Wiebe from copy hackers and Belinda Weaver from the hot copy podcast, and holds regular copywriting workshops in partnership with Lloyds business bank. That’s quite a resume focused when she’s not writing high converting emails for clients delivering workshops or teaching business owners how to write copy that converts. She’s bingeing either podcasts or pizza, but she’d rather you didn’t tell her PT Bab. Without further ado, let’s hear from Mr. Ismail.
Hi, Eman, thank you so much for joining me today.
Eman Ismail
Thank you so much for having me. I’m so happy to be here.
Abby Herman
Yes, I am, too. I found you on Instagram originally and started following your stories because I just loved how no nonsense you are and the way that you talk about email marketing. So I’m really looking forward to sharing that with the audience. Before we get started, can you share with everyone what you do and who you do it for?
Eman Ismail
Yeah, sure. So again, I am a man is my own. And I help six plus figure online business owners and e commerce brands, fire up their conversions, evergreen their sales and turn fans into superfans with amazing emails.
Abby Herman
Awesome. And how exactly do you work with clients? And then how does that structure help you to live the lifestyle that you want.
Eman Ismail
So this is fairly recent, actually. But I work with clients on a one to one basis and always have. But most recently, I decided to shake up my entire business model. And so I now work with clients on a VIP day basis. So I offer done in a day services are done in a day email campaigns, where a client will hire me for the entire day. And I spend that day researching strategizing, planning, writing. And then of course editing a high converting email sequence for them, whether they are a coach or a course creator or membership maker, or an e commerce brand, or might be writing in a welcome sequence or a abandoned cart sequence or post purchase sequence, or even an onboarding sequence for people who’ve just joined a new membership or a new course. So I work on a whole range of email campaigns and email sequences. But it is just the email that I work on and specialize in. And in a done in a day capacity. So a really fast kind of turnaround for clients, they get the sequence within five days. And yeah, they get to know plug it in and see it work really fast, as opposed to the two three month long projects I was working on before.
Abby Herman
Yeah, that’s a really interesting structure. I’ve never actually heard of anyone who structures their business as solely VIP days, and solely such a niche down area, the email marketing, so very interesting. Okay, I love that it has it hasn’t been really interesting. So we’re gonna talk all about email marketing today, email is one of my favorite things. So because I just think there’s such an opportunity with email marketing, and it doesn’t have to be sleazy and annoying. And you don’t have to land in somebody’s inbox every day or three times a day, because that’s a good way to get an unsubscribe. Before you can actually email your audience, you have to get these people on your list, you need to get followers on your list. And like I said, I’ve watched some of your Instagram stories and on YouTube, you do tear downs of big brands and their email campaigns and all of that. I would love for you to walk through the process of getting email subscribers, what does that look like? And what do we need to pay attention to in that initial acquisition?
Eman Ismail
Yeah, so the very first thing you need to do is start with the end goal. So what is it that you want to achieve with your email sequences? What is it that you want to achieve with your email list? What is it that you want your subscribers to actually do? And then you have to kind of reverse engineer it all the way back to the beginning to figure out how it is that you’re going to get them on your list. So for example, I have an online copywriting course for business owners that teaches them how to write a great copy so that they can get more sales and get more customers. And I know that my email list isn’t necessarily from our one to one clients. I don’t really get clients from my email list. But I do get a lot of people buying my online course from email list. So I already know that my audience is two different kinds of people either a business owner who wants to learn how to write great copy so that they can write the copy themselves instead of having to invest 1000s of pounds or dollars in hiring a copywriter or a copywriter who’s following me because they like what I do. They want to learn how to build a copyrights and business like I have, really want to start off with the basics of actually, you know, really being able to write great copy for that clients. So I know my audience well enough to know that about them. And that’s the very first thing you have to know your audience doesn’t have to think
Abby Herman
Can I interrupt you for just to ask you about that? Cool. And so you said that your two different audiences are business owners who kind of want to DIY and other copywriters who want to learn from you. But nowhere in there? Do you have those people who are buying VIP days, right?
Eman Ismail
No, these are not people who have 1000s of pounds of dollars to spend on a VIP day. This is not for those people. And it’s really interesting, because it was so hard for me to accept that. Because I thought that my email list should get me clients like that’s what it should do. And then when I actually went into the realization that the people who are joining my list are not my ideal clients, these are business owners who don’t actually have the funds right now to work with me, or who are copywriters who are kind of spying on me a little bit, and wanna watch what I’m doing and do it with me, then I kind of lead into the full potential of my email list and start having really great launches for my copywriting course, through my email list. And so just being realistic about who my audience is, and what it is that they actually want, allowed me to create an offer that could actually get them to my list in the first place. So it’s really important to know who your audiences to know what, what they want, and also know what your end goal is, and be realistic around that. Because I could have, I mean, I still could honestly, I could still try to get one to one clients from my email list. And sometimes I do get the odd client come through from it. But it’s not enough for me to say that I get clients from my email list, right? So if you can, I guess, watch the patterns that are coming through. And I will, I guess I’ll talk about this a little bit more, but actually engage with your list and see who’s on there and speak to them and have a conversation with them and find out who it is that is listening to you on the other side of these emails that you’re sending out, you can get a really good idea of how you can help them and how you can get more people like them on your list.
Abby Herman
Yes, I really wanted to make that distinction, because I’m in the same situation where I do not get my one on one clients from the podcast from my emails, you know, that doesn’t happen. Those are all referrals. And then the people who listen to the podcast and who are in my membership program, or who take my course or whatever, or who read all of my emails I’m talking to it’s a completely different audience there. And I think that, like you said, I think people have this mental block about it that well, my email list should always be getting me clients. Well, not necessarily because they’re in a different depending on who your clients are and who your target market is. It’s a completely different audience. And you have to learn how to speak to those people. And I know that I have one on one clients who listen to my podcast sometimes and who will read and respond to my emails from time to time, but that’s not really the norm. And they find that information after they’ve already started working with me. So yeah, so I wanted to make that distinction so that people go into this opt in acquisition piece with the right frame of mind with the right mindset and the right ideas behind what that end goal is actually going to be. So thank you for explaining that.
Eman Ismail
You’re so welcome. Um, the thing is, there is no rule about what your end goal should be. There is no you know, your end goal has to be to get clients from your email list who says though, absolutely not. It can be whatever you want it to be, and whatever you need it to be. And I knew that I had this online copywriting course. And I knew from doing face to face workshops that these face to face workshops are going really, really well. And people were asking me for an online version, which is how the online copywriting course it’s called, be your own copywriter. That’s how bureau copyrights came about. And then I realized that it’s the people on my list that are buying this from me that are asking me about it that want it. And so ever since my email list has become a place specifically for my launch, but obviously, between lunches, I’m sending regular emails to my list. I’m talking to them. I’m engaging with them. They know me, they trust me. And so you know, when I’m ready to launch they’ll buy from me again. And I know that I have gotten so far away from what we were talking about. I know.
Abby Herman
Sorry. Yeah. So let’s back up. So yeah, so you we talked, we were talking about how do you get the people on your list. And so you were talking about what your end goal is, and then I interrupted you. So continue.
Eman Ismail
It was this is how we kind of strayed too far away. It is about knowing your audience and knowing what your end goal is. And so just going back to my example, again, I know that I want to sell Be your own copywriter to my list. So the kind of people that are going to buy Be your own copywriter. When I launch it are people who want to DIY that copy and don’t want to hire a copywriter. So the kinds of resources that I’m going to create as lead magnets to get people to join my list is going to be about how to be a better copywriter for your own business or for yourself, it will have nothing to do with hiring a copywriter or outsourcing your copy, it will have everything to do with getting better at writing your own copy. And so you got to think really carefully about not what you want to put out into the world. But what your audience needs you to put out into the world. And then, because I used to just do what my audience wanted me to do, I have recently realized that it’s very important for me to love what I’m doing as well. And for me to put out what I love as well into the world. And so then it’s about finding that balance, figure out what it is that your audience need from you. And also figure out what it is that you are best at and what you want to create and what you would love to put out into the world. And then do that. So for example, I have two main lead magnets at the moment, I have an ebook called six secrets to writing copy that converts. So you can see how that attracts the business owner, I’m a copywriter who wants to get better at writing copy. And I’ve also got the email rules, which is a 35 minute Fast Track email class that teaches you how to boost your conversions and sales through email. And so both of those things are very specific teaching devices for me, so that people can get an idea of what I teach. And honestly, the feedback that I always get is I make my lead magnet. So good, though, the feedback I always get is if this is what you give away for free, what on earth is in your online course. And that’s the level that you really want to be giving the level of value that you really want to be giving to your audience in order to attract people to your list.
Abby Herman
Yes, I so agree. Having an opt in that says sign up for weekly tips and tricks. Nope, not enough, is not going to get people to sign up for your list. And yes, the value that you give and the quality of minutes, it used to be that you could give away a downloadable single page PDF that was like a checklist. And people could check that stuff off. That’s not enough anymore. Either they want value and they want a win. They want to be able to succeed at something. And if you show them how to get that they’re going to continue following you and probably buy from you eventually.
Eman Ismail
Absolutely. And I think the fear that a lot of people have is the fear of giving it all away, and feeling like oh, well, if I share what I know, then no one’s gonna want anything else from you, no one’s going to need anything else from me. And that is just not the case. The more that you give, the more people want. And the more that you give, the more that people trust you and the more that you’re building your authority, and the more that people look to you as an expert, and again, an authority in your field, and they will keep coming back for more because if anything, it just makes them realize how much they don’t know. You do know?
Abby Herman
Yes. Oh, that’s so good. Yes. Okay. So you’ve got people on your list, you’ve given them incredible value with your opt in. What’s next?
Eman Ismail
What do you do after you hand over the deliverable? love this question. Okay. So, like you said, the very first email is you delivering what you promised. So you give them whatever it is that you promised you do not make them wait for it, you did not make them do anything else in order to get it. It’s really easily accessible to them, you give them the thing. And then it’s all about nurturing, nurture your audience. So this is where you introduce yourself, and you introduce what you do. And you continue to provide value. And I don’t know how much I want to give away here because this is, this is some of my soulmate presentation now, right? But this is the key to having a successful email list. It’s nurturing your list and remembering to give, to give to people and to give to your audience. And know that email is a two way relationship. It is not a kind of marketing broadcasting channel for you. It is a conversation. And you can very easily very easily make it a conversation, if that is your intention. And the more that you’re able to create a two way conversation between you and your subscribers. The more engagement you’re going to get, the more people are going to open your emails, click on your emails, and of course, buy your stuff, whether it’s a coaching package, or an online course or you know, one to one services, whatever it is, if you can foster that relationship, you are so much more likely to have an email list that converts for you.
Abby Herman
Yes, so you do these tear downs on YouTube where you go through a brand’s sequence from like Did the acquisition from actually signing into the opt in to through their email sequence? And I mean, you really hit every piece. Can you tell us about one in particular? And I know I’m kind of putting you on the spot. But can you talk about what that looks like and what you’re looking for, for a really good quality, opt in conversion, email sequence, and, and how to kind of evaluate your own? Yeah, absolutely.
Eman Ismail
So firstly, I’m really glad that you like them. These have been really popular, so I’ve got so many more coming in the works. But for anybody who doesn’t know, these are email tiedowns that I do, and I only do them for big brands. I’ve done Kylie Jenner’s from Kylie Cosmetics, I’ve done that welcome sequence and whole email experience. I’ve done vans, the shoe company as well. And I’ve got a few more in the works too. Now, there’s a reason I don’t pick small brands, by the way, because some people have asked me to do smaller brands and I don’t want them to feel picked on. Whereas I feel like the bigger brands can handle it right. So yeah, I just specifically choose big ones right. Now, I’m going to give you the Kylie Cosmetics example, you can go on my blog and watch this on my Instagram and watch this. But I went on Kylie Cosmetics on the Kylie Cosmetics website. The very first thing I’m looking for is that it’s really easy for me to sign up to your list. I don’t have to scroll up and down and search all over the page. I don’t have to wonder how do I sign up for this newsletter, it should be really evident and really easy for me to sign up. And the reason I start with this is because this is where the email experience starts like people think it starts in the inbox. But it doesn’t, you have to go all the way back to the beginning of start. Start with this and actually stand in your customers shoes, and figure out how they actually get to your newsletter and go through that entire journey. So after I have kind of checked that out and seeing and seeing what the case is with that, I sign up and I’m looking at all the copy I’m looking at the opt in box copy, I’m looking at the incentive that they’ve given me to sign up and actually for Kylie Cosmetics, it was here from Kylie. Right. So hey, from Kylie herself, and for fans of Kylie, that is huge, right? So they’re going to sign up to the list. And it’s very clever. I mean, it’s very, it’s very obvious, but it’s very clever. And so yeah, let’s do that. So I signed up, and then I head over to my inbox and see what comes in. So when I’m doing these tie downs, I have to sign up and then wait for a few days right to see all the emails that kind of Japan. But you’ll see if you watch the tie down, the very first thing. I mean, there’s just so many things, but the very first thing is that you never hear from Kylie. You never get an email from Kylie or signed off as Kylie. I mean, we know really, Kylie Jenner is not going to be writing the emails. I mean, you could at least give us an email why Kylie Jenner, Jenna signs off on email, right? So you we can at least feel like Kylie’s right into us, that never happens. So that was the first major thing. So at that point, the subscriber has already been lied to, and will feel kind of cheated and robbed of their energy, time and attention. And also disappointed because if you’re a Kylie Jenner fan, and you’re expecting this email, you don’t get it. It’s just plain disappointing. So that was the first thing. I mean, there was so many, there were typos. That was a COVID 10. situation, there were things like, obviously, this is an e commerce brand. So the issues with the links inside the email sending people back to the homepage of the website, where they’ve just come from, which is really exhausting. Because if you think about getting an email from an e commerce brand, and they tell you hey, go check out our lipsticks, you need to take me to the page on your website that is all about lipsticks, don’t take me back to your homepage, because now you create an extra work for me as the user. And that should not be the case, you need to be making life as easy as possible for me. And it’s really simple things like that, that can boost your conversions and get you more sales just by thinking about how can I make life easier for the subscriber? And so I mean, there’s just so many different aspects. It’s a 13 minute video, actually. So if that sounded interesting, go ahead and watch it on my Instagram. But yeah, they’ve gone down really well. Because the great thing is, is that business owners, firstly feel 100 times better about their own emails and think right.
Abby Herman
Yeah, right.
Eman Ismail
So when big brand’s are doing it, it’s okay, that I’m not where I feel I should be right. And then the other thing is, these patterns are really educational for business owners, because it’s about learning from other people’s mistakes, right, they don’t have to make those mistakes, they get to see this big brand making the mistake and they’re learning about everything that they should do, and everything that they shouldn’t do and actually do go through the good things, the bad things and then the missed opportunities so that people can see the good points and like what they did well and what they should be doing and the emails then also the bad which is just you know, avoid should not have done and then the missed opportunities where Kylie Jenner could have made a whole lot more money from her email. So I mean, if you’re listening, Kylie Feel free to hire me. I would love to fix those emails for you.
Abby Herman
I don’t think Kylie is listening. But maybe we can email this to her.
Eman Ismail
I’ve had people try to tag her. But I’m like, I think Kylie Jenner is a little busy, a little too busy to maybe reply to my Instagram.
Abby Herman
But you know that she has people following and you following her Instagram and monitoring it for her? So maybe, maybe, no. That’s great. Okay, so I feel like you sort of answered my next question, but I’m going to ask in a different way. So I wanted to know about some of the top email mistakes that business owners make. But let’s focus on the nurturing emails, because you talked about nurturing emails already. They’re so important, they go beyond that welcome sequence beyond that funnel aspect. And they’re really meant to help you maintain a connection with your audience over the long term. So when you are ready to launch the thing, your people know who you are, and they know what you do, and you’ve already built that trust factor in there. So can you talk a little bit about nurturing emails, and what they could look like, and maybe a couple of tweak opportunities that people might have to get a better result from their nurturing emails? Absolutely.
Eman Ismail
So when we’re talking about nurturing emails like this, we usually talking about a regular newsletter that exists to nurture, and yes, it does sell. But it’s also that to keep you top of mind, your subscribers mind, so they are not forgetting about you. And also to create this relationship that is just about as much as you giving and being in conversation with them, as it is, you know, selling and so I just want anybody listening to know that it is hard to keep up a newsletter. And I think sometimes people feel really disappointed in themselves when they struggle to keep it up. But I just want you to know that it is hard, but it’s one of those things, that is hard work. But the benefits really, really pay off, if you can keep at it. And so when I talk about nurturing your audience, ideally, a weekly newsletter is best. I know people who do monthly newsletters, like a roundup, and that’s fine. But between those months, two months, you are giving people the chance to forget about you. Whereas when you email your subscribers weekly, they come to expect your emails, and they look forward to hearing from you. And it really is a case of you know, the more they hear from you, the more likely they are to open your emails. And of course, if your emails are good, and they enjoy your emails, they might even look forward to your emails and respond to emails, I know that I have a good number of email newsletters that I am subscribed to that I genuinely look forward to. And I will always stop what I’m doing to read those emails when they come in my inbox. And when I send an email to my subscribers, I have people replying to me and talking to me, and let me know how much they enjoyed that email or in one instance, you know, that email made me cry, or another email was, I’m ready to give you 1500 pounds, which was brilliant, you know. And so if you can just keep showing up, because that’s really what it’s about. You can keep showing up. And you keep that conversation going, when you’re ready to sell whatever it is that you’re selling, your subscribers are going to be so much more responsive.
Abby Herman
Can you give a few ideas of what we could include in our nurturing emails to make them more effective? I mean, is there so one of the things I’ll give you an example of what not to do, which I know you don’t do this. One of the things that used to happen a lot in the past is people would use like the RSS feed, and they would send word for word their blog posts to their email subscribers, and that’s all that they would send there would be no, like you said, there’s no conversation, there’s no relationship, there’s no giving, it’s just boom, here’s my blog read it. What could we do instead? To make our nurturing emails more effective? What are some of the things we could include in those?
Eman Ismail
Okay, that’s a really good question. And again, obviously, this answer differs depending on who you are, what you do, and what your goals are for your list and also, who you’re talking to. But there’s so many different things you can do, you can use your email list as a place to educate your subscribers on whatever it is that you do, so that you keep coming across as that expert and that authority. And I do want to say that you don’t have to just teach, you don’t have to keep just giving up tips and tricks and it can be really exhausting for you. And it can also be really exhausting for your audience to be kind of bombarded with constant tips and tricks and you should be doing this and you shouldn’t be doing that. So think about what else you can do. I love to tell stories and the stories usually kind of lead back to a you know copywriting lesson, but it just comes across so much easier to means I’m really experimenting with my email list on minutes. So I’ll give you an example of the last email I sent on Thursday, which was all about bridgerton. So
Abby Herman
I have I loved it.
Eman Ismail
Loved it loved it, but I won’t give any spoilers away, I was really disappointed with the ending. So I wrote this entire email me to write about the end thing of rejection. And I explained that the reason I was so disappointed was because for me, it was completely unbelievable. Like, it just went way beyond the realm of believability. And I love that you’re nodding your head at me, right? So I’m not the only one who thinks this list skipped a huge part of the story.
Abby Herman
And you were just like, what? And so that whole middle part, yes, no, I agree.
Eman Ismail
I just like it was just like I was at a I was following. I like ABCD. And then we just went to Z. And I was like, this is really unbelievable, I actually just had to close my laptop. And instantly I was like, this is this is an email. But I couldn’t even write it for a few days, because I was just mad, because that show was so good, up until the end. And so I wrote this whole email about how you know, the ending would just went beyond the realm of believability for me. And that right, there is a key copywriting lesson about how in order for me to believe you, whether you’re Netflix, whether you’re bridgerton, whether you’re a coach, or a designer, or a copywriter trying to get me to buy from you, I need to believe you, I need Whatever you say, to be within the realms of believability. And then I went through this example of a sales page that I was reviewing business owner recently. And, you know, he was making claims, you know, he’s putting together his membership, and he was trying to convince people to join his membership on his sales page. And he was saying, you know, if you join this membership, you will get a one to one session with me, and that’s worth 17,000 pounds. And so I use this example of the sales page that I was also reviewing. And I said, you know, that, too, is beyond the realm of believability. Like, how can I believe that, unless you’re beyond say, I don’t know, a one to one half hour session with you, is gonna cost me 17,000 pounds, you know, make sure that what you what you say, and you do in your marketing is honest and truthful, especially in your copywriting. Because you will instantly lose people’s trust, if it doesn’t sound believable. And then I did a vote at the end. And I got people to vote on whether the ending was as awful as I thought it was, or whether I was just being my usual dramatic self. So it was really fun seeing those, you know, those votes come in. And actually it was it was about 5050. So a good number of people agreed with me, but a good number disagreed, too. But you know, that is an example of bringing, you know, culture and what’s going on outside of the world of business, into your email and telling stories. And also, you know, given lessons about what you do, but in a way that is fun, and easily accessible to people who might find what you do. A little hard to understand. Yeah.
Abby Herman
Oh, that’s so good. And the people who thought that the ending of Bridgerton was good. I don’t know. I don’t know about them.
Eman Ismail
I know. I stand by it. I was shocked. But I’m looking forward to season.
Abby Herman
You’re gonna say they set themselves they totally set themselves up for season two. And I’ve heard it’s coming. So yeah.
Eman Ismail
Can I just say, you know, another part of that email was the fact that all the bridges and costs we’re celebrating, because apparently, they’ve reached at 2 million homes and and views, which is amazing. However, according to the BBC, one of you, according to Netflix means someone was watching for just two minutes. So Oh, yeah. Which kind of changes the way you then view 82 million views? Yeah. So that was another lesson in an honest marketing. Let’s be honest about what these what these things really mean. Do you say? Because I found that really interesting. So that was another thing that made it into the email about Bridgerton.
Abby Herman
Well, and you know, actually, that really aligns with the way podcast downloads work and views on your website, I mean, or sessions on your website, it really aligns that a download. And I don’t know the actual number. But it’s something like somebody has to listen for 30 seconds for it to be considered two minutes or something to be considered a download. So yeah, so it’s very, the way the measurement tools are not totally accurate for anything, either. So. So there’s that too. So I mean, you may have, you know, 500 downloads on your podcast, but that doesn’t mean that they’re all actually listening to the content. They might hear the interviews, like in the introduction, and they’re like, forget it. Yeah. So it’s interesting how that works. Yeah, I don’t know the actual numbers, but I do know that I should know the actual numbers since I have a podcast. But I don’t. Alright, so as we wrap up, I don’t want to give away all of the goodies from your summit talk, but I would love if you don’t mind sharing because you’re going to be talking about making more money on your emails as a business owner. You don’t have to share everything, just if you could just give us a little bit of tease and pique our interest a little bit on your talk.
Eman Ismail
Okay? Well, I am going to encourage you to change the entire way you think about email and the entire way you approach email. And to really stop thinking about email is the place to sell, and to start thinking about email as a place to give in order to sell, and you will sell so much more that way. And I’ll be going through a really detailed sequence that will allow you to do that really quickly and easily, and one that you can put in place just one time and have it in place, because I know you’re a busy business owner. And so you know, you will have millions of other things that you want to do other than setting up email sequences. So I’m going to go through it and walk you through it really easily step by step so that you know, literally, what goes into each email.
Abby Herman
So good. I cannot wait to see it. I’m really looking forward to it. Thank you so much for joining me today. Can you share with listeners, how they can find you and follow you. And I’m going to include links to especially the Kylie Jenner tear down and your course and all of that, where can people follow you online?
Eman Ismail
Thank you so much. So you can find me on Instagram, at in cost writing. And that’s where I mostly hang out and where I have the most fun. So come join me on Instagram. And then my website is in chaos.org.uk. All right,
Abby Herman
thank you so much. And we will see you soon at the summit.
Eman Ismail
Yes, thank you for having me.
Abby Herman
So much good stuff on email, right? Are you ready to make some tweaks to the way you’re emailing your list so you can get a better ROI? Well, you can learn more from Eamon at the content experiment summit, or imana is one of our speakers. She has a lot more where this episode came from. Remember that you can sign up for the waiting list at the content experiment comm slash summit. Registration opens February 26 for the waiting list only. If you found value in what you learned here today, be sure to share it on social media. Take a screenshot of the episode on your phone and share it over on Instagram stories. tag me at Abby, Herman and the content experiment and tag him on at ink house writing and the more you share, the more we can spread the word that you don’t have to do business like everyone else. It’s okay to experiment with little tweaks and changes in your content and your marketing to find what works for you. What increases the value for your audience and what grows your business. Until next time, take care
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
