Enhancing Leadership Through Vulnerability with Wendy Ryan -
organizational leadership, leadership development

Enhancing Leadership Through Vulnerability with Wendy Ryan


Most people associate vulnerability with weakness. In reality, vulnerability is closely related to authenticity and integrity—all traits a strong leader should embody in any form of organizational leadership.

Today we’re talking about, you guessed it—leadership. My guest is my amazing client Wendy Ryan, CEO of Kadabra, who works with organizations on leadership, change, allyship, equity, and inclusion.

Wendy and I talk about vulnerability in leadership, what it looks like, what’s appropriate vulnerability (and when we’ve gone too far). This is such an important conversation because, as small business owners, it’s important to recognize how much impact we have on our clients and our teams. Our role in leadership can be an opportunity to lead by example, proving that vulnerability is a powerful asset in a leader’s tool belt.

Listen in to this powerful leadership conversation!

Mentioned in This Episode

About Wendy Ryan

Wendy Ryan is the CEO of Kadabra, an interdisciplinary team of leadership and change experts based in Silicon Valley, California. In addition to her work with Kadabra, Wendy is an active mentor, strategic advisor, and angel investor in early-stage, BIPOC, LGBTQ+, and women-led companies. She is also an advocate for expanding diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility in the investor and business ecosystems.
Follow Kadabra on Instagram, Facebook, or LinkedIn to learn more.

Transcription

Abby Herman 0:08
Hey there, and welcome to Episode 119 of the content experiment podcast, a podcast that supports the idea that content and marketing are ever-moving targets in any business. And it’s okay if you don’t feel like you’re doing it. All right all of the time, you have permission to experiment with little tweaks and changes in your content, to find what works for you, what increases value for your audience, and what grows your business, and most importantly, what feels good for you. I’m Abby Herman, content strategist and coach for online business owners who are ready to make a bigger impact online. I firmly believe that success isn’t about what big marketing brands and so-called gurus think is the right thing. It’s about you and your business, your lifestyle, and, frankly, your values and belief systems. You get to do business in a way that works for you. If you’re new to the podcast, thanks so much for stopping by, I am happy to have you and I think you’ll find this podcast to be full of no-nonsense support, to help inspire you to get your message out there and give you the actionable steps you need to make it happen. If you like what you hear, hit the subscribe button, and you won’t miss another episode. If you’ve been listening for a while, thanks so much for sticking around. If you’re a repeat listener, I’m guessing that you like what you’re hearing, would you take a few minutes and pay it forward by leaving a five-star rating and review. If you head to your podcast app right now, you can probably get this done. While you’re listening to this intro ratings and reviews are what helped tell Apple Spotify, Stitcher, and all the other platforms and to me that you like what you’re hearing, and helps to get the podcast in more earbuds, so others can benefit from the information I’m handing down on a regular basis.

Abby Herman 2:03
Today’s episode is brought to you by content mastery lab, a membership community that supports business owners by helping you through identifying the right content to create for your audience. From market research to ideation and creation, to iteration and publication. It offers support feedback, community accountability, and so much more. Because you can’t just sit down and decide that you’re going to create content for your business, you need a plan, and you need some space to tweak and adjust that plan when needed. Sometimes it takes a little while to get there, you have to try out a few things, experiment with different types of content, you need to sometimes do something you’ve never done before, make a little tweak and change and see how your audience reacts. But luckily, if you were experimenting, you can make more tweaks and changes. I believe in experimenting with content rather than creating an entire overhaul of your content strategy. That’s what we do inside the Content Mastery Lab, my membership community, stop floundering with trying to figure it all out yourself. And start creating content with the confidence that you’re on the right path. Join us monthly or quarterly or commit to a whole year for extra one on one time with me and quarterly planning parties. Where we work through your content together in an intimate group, head to the content experiment comm slash lab for more information and to sign up. And if you use the coupon code podcast, you can try out your first month for just $1. Now today we’re talking about leadership. Every single one of you listening here today is a leader and likely in multiple capacities in your life.

Abby Herman 3:48
My guest today is my amazing client, Wendy Ryan, CEO of Kadabra, who works with organizations on leadership change allyship and more. This is such an important conversation because as business owners, it’s important to recognize how much impact we have on others. Wendy and I talk about vulnerability among leaders what it looks like what’s appropriate vulnerability, and when we might have gone too far. We also talk about her new book learn lead left which releases on May 12. And that’s in two days for those of you listening in real-time. Before we get to the interview. Let me tell you a little more about Wendy. Wendy Ryan is the CEO of Kadabra an interdisciplinary team of leadership and change experts based in Silicon Valley, California. In addition to her work with Kadabra Wendy is an active mentor strategic advisor an angel investor in early-stage BIPOC LGBTQ++ and women-led companies and an advocate for expanding diversity equity inclusion and accessibility in the investor and Business ecosystems. You will often find Wendy on stage speaking live or virtually at conferences, events, and organizations about topics reading, ranging from leadership and change to allyship in advocacy to investing. And now here’s our conversation.

Abby Herman 5:32
Hi, Wendy, thank you so much for being here. I’m so excited to have you on the podcast.

Wendy Ryan 5:38
I’m so happy to be here, Abby. Thanks for having me.

Abby Herman 5:41
Yeah. So I know you very well. But for listeners, would you explain what you do and who you do it for?

Wendy Ryan 5:50
Yes, I am the CEO of Kadabra. We are an interdisciplinary team of leadership, and teamwork, and change experts. And we’re on a mission to create as much positive change as we can in and around those three things. So I am lucky in that I get to wake up every morning lead an incredible team, and every day is a different set of challenges and opportunities for us and for our clients.

Abby Herman 6:22
I think that’s one of the best things about being a business owner, is that you kind of get to guide that and, and every day does look totally different. And you get to make that happen, which I love.

Wendy Ryan 6:37
Yes, me too. I think I would be concerned if I woke up tomorrow and it looked like today, there would be something terribly wrong.

Abby Herman 6:48
Can you share a little bit about how you and your organization works, work with clients, and how that helps you to live the lifestyle that you want?

Wendy Ryan 6:59
Sure. Well, I think historically, we very much have been a word of mouth business. And typically people think of Kadabra or they think of me or someone on my team, whenever a people problem comes along, or, or something happens in the business that they perceive to be happening because of a person or because of the whole system. Right. So typically, things like, Oh, we have this great executive, but he just doesn’t wear well with others is something we hear a lot. Or we have this team of incredibly smart, creative people, but together, they’re just not getting it done, there’s a lot of friction, there’s a lot of fighting, and we’re not seeing innovation come out of that investment. Or we realize that our culture needs some work, we need we want to become more inclusive, or we realize that we have a really hard time shifting, and changing in ways that we need to. So those are some examples of the types of things that go on in businesses of all shapes, sizes, and, and sectors that people will often want to engage us to just help them figure out what’s happening. What can we do about it? And what are the next steps?

Abby Herman 8:26
And so how does the way that you do that work, help you in your own lifestyle and how you live your life?

Wendy Ryan 8:34
Well, I love the flexibility around that. So in addition to no day is the same as the day before, or the next day afterward will be. It’s also for me, it means that some days, I have a lot of meetings with clients, some days, especially pre COVID, and hopefully post COVID I’ll be in transit somewhere and I’ll be getting ready for those meetings. And so for me, it has enabled me to travel to enabled me to meet a really wide variety of unique people. And I think it has helped me learn and grow at a much faster pace than if I were working inside of an organization. So I’m a big champion of entrepreneurship and of consulting because I think it really, even if you don’t do it forever, it’s one way to really stretch and grow very quickly. Because you have to deal with a lot of novel experiences and people in a pretty compressed timeframe.

Abby Herman 9:36
Yes, so agree. So you have a book coming out that I’m really excited about. It’s called learn lead, lift, how to think act and inspire your way to greatness. And we’re definitely gonna get to that. But first I want to talk a little bit about leadership in general kind of in a broad sense, and what means to you. So in reading some excerpts from the book, because I have had the pleasure of being able to do that. I know that and from our conversations, so you’ve been a client for about a year and a half now, I feel like maybe it’s been long has it been a year and a half longer, but in a good way?

Abby Herman 10:19
Yes. Yes, definitely. So I know that leadership, you know, is a lot more than the CEO of a large organization. And I feel like that’s kind of some of the premise behind the book, can you explain or talk a little bit about leadership and what that looks like to you? Maybe what you’ve seen in organizations, and what you would like to see in organizations around leadership?

Wendy Ryan 10:46
Those are all great questions, I think we can unpack a whole lot of different things there. So I’ll do my best to get on. Most of those, at least, I think leaders are increasingly aware. And I think that is a real positive for, for all of us that none of us achieve anything alone. So whether you are the CEO of a large organization, or you’re a solopreneur, or you’re a parent, or you’re a community leader, the common denominator is that you’re really trying to influence someone else in service of getting something done something accomplished. And it’s not just serving your own interests. So I really define leadership in a way that I think is very other-centered. It’s not about me, it’s about us, and what can we do together?

Abby Herman 11:40
Yes. So essentially, you talked about parents, and I think you mentioned teachers, and so potentially, everyone is able to be a leader. Can you talk a little bit about what that might look like?

Wendy Ryan 11:54
Sure. I think, you know, leadership is a practice, really. So it’s not anyone who can practice leadership, it’s not dependent on a certain title. And it’s not even dependent on having authority. So a lot of what we talk about in the book is, how do you influence without authority? How do you think about all the ways to lead effectively, even if you are not, you have not been designated as the person whose job it is to do that. And so when we think about it that way, it quickly becomes clear that who we describe as a leader, or who we designate as a leader, it’s not all about, who’s formally on the org chart, sitting in a box, or it’s not someone that we say, oh, that person must be a leader, because they look a certain way they have a certain background, they, they come with a set of qualities, it’s much more about how we’re showing up to others. And in service of getting something done.

Abby Herman 13:02
Can you unpack that a little bit? So if somebody is in an organization, or maybe they’re a contractor for an organization for a solo for a, you know, a small business? What does that look like to kind of show up with that authority? in someone else’s business?

Wendy Ryan 13:22
Yes, so so consulting certainly draws from that, you know, we see that most typically, and when we’re in an advisory mode, for example, you know, we’re thought of as the subject matter expert, and we’re trying to provide information. But we’re not just providing information for the sake of that we’re providing information that we expect is going to produce a certain result, it’s going to influence the client in some way. So that’s an example of where we might be exercising leadership, even though we don’t necessarily have the authority to make the final call. I think also, you mentioned teachers earlier. And that’s an interesting example where traditionally, we, we sort of invest teachers with authority, you know, you’re in charge of this classroom. And certainly, being able to manage a classroom and handle what goes on in there in a way that creates learning. And minimizes distraction is a really important skill. However, beyond that, it’s really about what’s the change that that teacher is creating through the learning for their students. So it’s more about the impact you’re having, and that can be 360 degrees. Whether it’s people you’re trying to impact because they report to you or people that are peers or people that you know, we hear sometimes about managing up, you know, so how is it that you’re enabling your boss to be successful, how are you influencing them, that’s also part of leadership.

Abby Herman 14:56
I think that’s such a huge mindset shift to think of it as that The impact that you’re having, because you have an impact in everything that you do in life, whether it’s business or personal, you, you have an impact. It could be positive, it might not be positive, but whatever you’re doing, it has an impact. And to think of it that way into going into a client’s business, and finding ways to impact the people who like just thinking about, you know, my own clients, and how I can impact their businesses. That’s a huge mindset shift. And I think it allows you to, I don’t know, it’s a, it’s a positive mindset shift. Like, it makes me feel really good to think about how I can possibly impact someone else. So I love that.

Wendy Ryan 15:45
I think sometimes too, we honestly surprise ourselves, when we have that mindset shift, as you’re talking about when we when we’re able to hold that. It’s amazing what we’re able to accomplish. And sometimes we look back and say, Wow, I can’t believe I was able to show up at that moment, in such a way. So mindsets really, really powerful in leadership and in life.

Abby Herman 16:10
Yeah, absolutely. So let’s shift and talk about the book a little bit. You mentioned it a little bit. I mentioned the title learn lead left, can I know that this has been a labor of love for you, for the last couple of years? Why was it so important for you to write this book in particular?

Wendy Ryan 16:29
Well, I think a couple of things came together for me at the right time. And this happens a lot in life, that we find ourselves at a crossroads. And it can be a, you know, a fraught Crossroads with lots of difficult things going on. Or it can even be kind of a crossroads of serendipity. And I think in my case, it was really about one I turned the magic 5-0, so yes, I’m adding myself as a 50-year-old and very happy to claim that. And I thought to myself at that time, what do I really want to do to celebrate that milestone, I want to have a party do I want to go travel somewhere, I have so much privilege that I can even entertain doing those kinds of things. And what kept coming up for me over and over is a sense of real gratitude for having had the opportunity to work in leadership development for 20 years.

Wendy Ryan 17:25
And all the things I had learned along the way. And all of the people that had really contributed to the learning, most especially my clients. And so I thought to myself, I’ve always been a writer, I’ve always loved writing, it’s always been something that came fairly easily and naturally for me. So I thought, wouldn’t it be great to kind of put something together that really honored that learning and that journey, and did it in a way that could be really useful to other people, right. So we’re not just celebrating me, we’re not even just celebrating my clients, but we’re trying to create something together, that someone else can take and use, you know, when I think of my daughter, who’s almost 22, she’s in her third year of college. And she’s, you know, deep in the process of really discerning career and where she wants to work and what she wants to do. And I think a lot of what the book can be for others is the book that we wish we had read when we were 22. And just starting out and thinking about how do I step into my own as a professional, as a leader as a person of impact in the world? What does that look like? So I think all of those things were sort of swimming around for me at the same time. And it all just came together when it was the right time to come together.

Abby Herman 18:46
Mm-hmm. I love that. And you are making an impact with the book too. You’re impacting other people, future leaders, current leaders.

Wendy Ryan 18:56
Yeah, I love that.

Abby Herman 18:58
So I mentioned you and I have worked together for a while and we meet once at least once a month. We’ve met at least once a month for the last year and a half or so. And I have loved the conversations that we’ve had over the last year and a half into the conversations with the leaders in your organization because I get to meet with them regularly too. And I’ve learned so much. And so as I was getting ready for this interview, I was trying to think of some of the biggest lessons that I’ve learned from you and your team. And of course, I couldn’t choose because there’s been so many, but something that we’ve talked about a lot. And something that has really resonated with me during this time has been obviously around leadership and the mindset and vulnerabilities specifically relating to leadership we’ve talked about that a lot. It’s been in your content a lot over the last few months. And there’s more coming to for those of you listening and can you share a little bit about vulnerability in general and why it’s strength among leaders. And not a weakness because I think a lot of people think of vulnerability as being weak. What does that actually look like in practice?

Wendy Ryan 20:08
And I think that’s a great question. And I think vulnerability is very closely related to both authenticity, and integrity. And those are two of the behaviors that I do talk about a lot in the book, and why they matter for leadership and why vulnerability matters for leadership, and how it ties in is one, we are naturally wired to feel comfortable and safe. And to really like people who we think are more like us, though, sometimes that can be problematic because we can end up talking to ourselves hanging out with people that are exactly like ourselves, and not getting the benefits of Diversity and Equity and Inclusion that we might want to drive. However, because we’re, we’re wired in a way that says people like us are safe people like, like us, are something we’re really comfortable with. None of us are perfect. And we intuitively know that I mean, unless we are really delusional narcissists, which, fortunately, most of us are not, we have a pretty good sense that not we’re not perfect.

Wendy Ryan 21:19
And so if I’m presenting myself in such a way, as a leader that I keep reinforcing the message, I am perfect. I never have a bad day, I never experienced any stress or negative emotion or have any challenges, then everyone who works with me and around me and for me, they’re going to feel that I am not accessible. They’re not like me, they can never live up to, to my standards, and we’re not going to have the kind of relationship we’re not going to have the kind of cohesion as a team as if I am actually much more authentic and much more open about, Hey, you know, I don’t think I’ve shown up well today, or, wow, that wasn’t my best decision. Here’s what I wish I had done differently. So by being vulnerable, we give people permission to admit when maybe they haven’t done something perfectly, or they’re struggling with something. And that allows all of us to grow. The whole point of work-life, and I think, extend that to life in general, should be, you know, how are we evolving? How are we learning? And how are we growing? And ultimately, I strongly believe that we’re so much more satisfied as people and as professionals, when we feel like we are on a path to growth, it doesn’t all have to be straight up a corporate ladder. But we want to feel as though we’re not done, you know, we’re not ever fully baked, we’ve always got ways we can expand our thinking ways that we can expand the skillset ways that we can expand what the impact we’re able to have in the world. So I think vulnerability is so key for that. It’s so key for our ability to form relationships and impact people positively. It’s everything.

Abby Herman 23:06
So when you’re talking about growth and being on a growth path as a leader, what are some ways that leaders can communicate that information to their team, to their clients, and like the world around them in an appropriate way?

Wendy Ryan 23:26
Yeah, that’s it that I love that you said an appropriate way. So, one thing that’s so important to remember around vulnerability is vulnerability works well when I’m being honest with myself and other people about my shortcomings about what I want to get better at. And I’m sharing what I’m going to do about that, right? Or when I’m, When am I going to figure that out, there should be a commitment that comes along with the disclosure. That’s what makes vulnerability, something that actually benefits other people and benefits us. If instead, I’m vulnerable and saying, you know, I just, I’m having a really bad day, I’m just so upset, and I just leave it there. And I’m in a team meeting, then essentially, what that does for my team is, then that’s basically putting the burden on them to now do work to make me feel better, or to solve my problem for me. So for leaders, we have to be careful that in being vulnerable, we also have a solution mindset that goes with that. And we convey that we’re not going to allow ourselves to get stuck in whatever that emotion or that event or that circumstances, even if it’s really sucky, even if something that we just feel really terrible about right now. So that’s the important piece with a vulnerability that leaders really have to make sure that they’re embracing.

Abby Herman 24:53
So what are some options? So let’s say, you know, the conversation is I didn’t make a great decision, this is what I should have done or what I would do differently next time. And if that becomes a pattern where that’s happening at every team meeting, or you know, it’s happening with every big decision, what is the I guess? This is a two-part question, as most of my questions are? What are the options for the leader for one? And how do they communicate that information to their teams so that their team knows, okay, they’re working on this, this is a pattern, they recognize it, and they’re working on it.

Wendy Ryan 25:39
So certainly, depending on what’s going on in the business, and what’s going on with you, we go through cycles where we are growing and learning, you know, more painfully, we’re having more discomfort, because we are making more mistakes, right? If we’re at the very steep end of the learning curve, never done this before. We’re trying to figure it out. You may have more of those moments and conversations, I think it’s especially important to challenge yourself and challenge the team to say, okay, we’ve talked about that. Now we’re going to focus on what’s going right, and what should we be celebrating. So it’s always important to bring that balance. And it’s always important to make sure people don’t forget that, just because one thing isn’t working very well right now, or just because one person is really struggling, or we’re trying to work some stuff out as a team, we can get very focused on what’s going wrong. And we can forget about all the things that we’re actually executing well, and, and, and I think so. So that balance becomes important. And I think verbally, just saying those things in team meetings, I think, posting on your, your internal social platform, whether it’s slack, or a team’s making sure that you’re recognizing what’s going right. And doing that on a regular basis helps balance out that vulnerability that we talked about.

Abby Herman 27:07
Can you share a little bit about limits to vulnerability? How, when is when are you too vulnerable?

Wendy Ryan 27:15
That’s a great question. I think that depends on the team. You know, our team at
Kadabra is I would say we’re on the high end of the continuum of the scale or, or one end of the continuum, where we are very open with each other about all things personal and professional. I think that has a lot to do with the nature of the work that we do. Were in coaching clients and facilitating and having difficult conversations and, and really trying to hone in on how can I best serve the process and best create change and impact here? It’s emotional work. It’s not you bring we bring our whole selves to the work. And therefore when we work as a team, we also bring our whole selves. However, we’ve built that over time, we’ve built trust, and we’ve given each other permission to do that. I don’t think that’s true in every environment. And I think that we have to be aware, it takes time. And we have to say how much vulnerability again, really serves the processor, the mission? Are we going to be together for a really short time? Are we going to be together for you know, an extended period of time is is that an ad hoc team for a project? Or is this an ongoing team that’s going to be together? All of those factors plan.

Wendy Ryan 28:39
But if someone’s uncomfortable with the level of vulnerability on the team, or if your colleague says, gosh, I really wish you hadn’t shared that information with me, that’s an opportunity to look at it and reset. And maybe you do have to adjust some things. So vulnerability does not give us permission to share everything about ourselves 24, seven, good, bad, or otherwise, it’s selective vulnerability, its situational awareness is part of that context as part of that. But generally speaking, when I think about the expectations for leaders to be vulnerable today, versus 20 years ago, or 40 years ago, we generally expect leaders to be much more vulnerable to be much more comfortable disclosing what’s going on in their personal life or how they’re thinking about a certain situation. So I would say in general, it’s better to be thinking about that as a leader and saying, How can I make sure that at least selectively, I’m finding ways to show I can be vulnerable and in service of the learning and growth that can produce?

Abby Herman 29:52
Yeah, and I have to say too, just from a firsthand perspective, watching you and your team members You know, Converse and have discussions around difficult topics which, which we do on a regular basis has been being able to kind of be a fly on the wall and watch that has been really eye-opening for me. And I think it speaks to you as a leader, that your team members are able to have these conversations. And you know, from my perspective, you’re all very open. And, and like you said, at the high end of the vulnerability spectrum, so. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I’m curious to hear from you about the process of writing your book, and what you learned about yourself, and about you as a leader during that process?

Wendy Ryan 30:50
Well, it took, I thought, I think as most first-time authors probably think, Oh, I can knock this out in six months. And here we are, almost three years later, I started the book in 2018. And it’s finally publishing, May 12, 2021. So about two and a half, two years, nine months, I think is about the exact time period, so much longer than I thought. And part of the reason for that is that I was also trying to grow and scale and evolve a business. And so I didn’t allocate for myself, time to just write, I didn’t go away for a month to begin a writer’s retreat and, and just work on it. So I think it would have happened faster, had I carved out more dedicated time to just write. But the reality was for good, bad, or otherwise, that I wrote in small bits, and fits and starts around my regular workweek. And so it took longer on the back end, however, is because it took longer. And because the book is coming out in 2021, and not in 2019, and not even in early 2020, it is a different book, because the world changed in 2020, as we know so well with the pandemic, with George Floyd’s murder and the racial reckoning that has happened since.

Wendy Ryan 32:21
And I took a good six months in 20, where I put the book down, so to speak, and didn’t write at all didn’t look at it. And I made a commitment to myself to really do some exploration, some learning, and some reflection. Because the business needed my undivided attention to survive. And be because I felt like what was happening in the world was too important for me not to take some time to really dig into the implications of that for leadership. And for myself, personally. So I’m very grateful that I did that. When I picked up the book, again, it wasn’t that I had to go back and rewrite the book. But I felt like I could expand on what was there at the core in a way that felt even more authentic, and felt like it could have an even bigger and better impact. So I think every book is a journey. And my sense is that it’s a very individual one. But I’m so glad I finished it. So I guess my advice to authors would be even if it takes you three years, and you thought it would be six months, the important thing is to finish.

Abby Herman 33:31
Yeah, yeah. And to get that message out to everyone to Yeah. Where can people find the book? Because this episode is coming out on May 10. So in two days, it’s your book will officially be released, where can people go to find it?

Wendy Ryan 33:49
It is available all over, I really want to put in a plug for independent bookstores. So bookshop is a great place to start to find your local bookstore and to support independent bookstores. Aside from that, all of the big national platforms, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Apple Books, all of those are also places where you can access the book, both in paperback or if you prefer the online version. It’s available, but there too, so however you like to consume books. It’s available.

Abby Herman 34:30
I love it. And you’re offering some downloads as well. Right. Can you talk a little bit about those?

Wendy Ryan 34:37
We are, I think, definitely, the book is written to be highly actionable. So the whole idea is that you’re reading it, but you’re also taking action at the pace that works for you. And so we’ve made some resources available immediately and we plan to continue to deliver additional resources. As we go over some period of time, and so that the downloads that are available right now are a free excerpt of the book. So it’s the first couple of chapters to give you a sense of is this something that could be helpful to me and something I’m interested in digging into more. We also have a great self-awareness toolkit. So something that kind of gets you ready to dig into the book and really apply it. And then we have just a short one-pager that talks about the lonely lift framework, which is what the book is based on.

Wendy Ryan 35:41
You can start there to order the book, or you can go to wearekadabra.com, and then navigate to resources and book, and it’ll take you to the downloads. Awesome.

Abby Herman 35:54
So you said actionable, the book is very actionable. I’m all about taking action. So as we wrap up if listeners only take away one or two things from our conversation that they can take action right away. What do you hope that they do?

Wendy Ryan 36:10
I think there are lots of ways you can get started right away. I think one of the best things to do is to take some inventory of what does it mean to you to be a leader? Why does it matter? And what is one step that you can take toward that?

Abby Herman 36:34
I love why it matters. Like why does it matter? That’s a great reflection right there.

Wendy Ryan 36:40
Thank you.

Abby Herman 36:41
Yeah, thank you so much for joining me, I am really excited for everyone to get their hands on the book, and I will have all of the links in the show notes for everyone.

Wendy Ryan 36:55
Thank you so much for having me. Abby, this has been such a joy.

Abby Herman 36:59
I have to say that before this conversation, I really didn’t think much about how much impact everyone every single one of us can have on a day-to-day basis. I want you to take a moment and think about how much impact you are making on your clients’ businesses. It’s pretty inspiring when you think about it, isn’t it? Now if you are ready to start experimenting with content and marketing in your own business without having to do all the guesswork yourself and remember that you can join us inside the content mastery lab at thecontentexperiment.com/lab and use the coupon code podcast to get your first month for $1 Pricing starts at just $97 A month after that. If you found value in what you learned here today, be sure to share it on social media. Take a screenshot of the episode on your phone and share it over on Instagram stories. You can tag me at Abby Herman and the content experiment and you can tag Wendy @wearekadabra. The more you share the more we can get the podcast into the hands of more business owners just like you who need to hear the message that they are not alone. Until next time, take care.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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