What’s going on in your head is kind of a big deal when you’re running a business. It can mean the difference between a productive week and one where you’re ready to throw in the towel.
But I think mindfulness often gets overlooked and we talk about manifesting things (money, clients, email subscribers, etc.) instead. Those things aren’t going to show up if you’re not intentional with your time, get your mindset straight, and get really clear on how you want to show up and grow your business.
On this week’s episode, guest Lee Chaix McDonough talks about what mindfulness looks like in business and as business owners, how to figure out what’s important to you (and take action on it), and why all business owners need some knowledge of coaching so you can self-coach.
It’s not our typical episode, which I think makes it even more interesting and powerful. Tune in now!
Mentioned In This Episode
About Lee Chaix McDonough
Lee Chaix McDonough is the CEO and Founder of Coach With Clarity, a training and education company for life and business coaches. She is also the host of the Coach with Clarity podcast and author of the #1 Amazon bestselling book, ACT On Your Business: Braving the storms of entrepreneurship and creating success through meaning, mindset, and mindfulness.
After over a decade as a clinical social worker and public health professional, Lee became credentialed as a coach through the International Coach Federation and now provides ICF-accredited training and continuing coach education for intuitive, innovative coaches.
Her Coach with Clarity framework fuses meaning, mindset, and mindfulness with grounded intuition and solid business strategy to help coaches and clients excel at entrepreneurship and transform their lives.
Lee lives in New Bern, NC with her husband Patrick, their two teenage sons Jack & Ben, and their lovable pug Phineas.
Abby Herman 0:08
Hey there, and welcome to episode 168 of the Content Experiment Podcast, a podcast that supports the idea that content and marketing are ever moving targets in any business. And it’s okay if you don’t feel like you’re doing it. All right all of the time, you have permission to experiment with little tweaks and changes in your content, to find what works for you, what increases value for your audience, and what grows your business, and most importantly, what feels good for you. I’m Abby Herman, content strategist and consultant for online business owners who are ready to make a bigger impact online. And I’m CEO and creative director of the content experiment, a content marketing agency that offers full service content marketing, and podcast management. I firmly believe that success isn’t about what big marketing brands and so called gurus think is the right thing. It’s about you and your business, your lifestyle, and, frankly, your values and belief systems. You get to do business in a way that works for you.
Abby Herman 1:12
Now, I have a question for you. How are you showing up for your business? Do you feel really good about your calendar, your energy your messaging, as business owners, we get to define what all that looks like, for better or for worse. Personally, some seasons of my business have been better than others, but I know that I can always take a step back and recalibrate what I’m doing. Today on the podcast, I am talking with Lee Chaix McDonough, about what mindfulness looks like in business and as business owners, how to figure out what’s important to you and take action on it, and why all business owners need some knowledge of coaching so that you can self coach we’re going to talk about what that means is such a great conversation that might be just what you need to ensure that you feel really good and aligned in 2022 Because remember, you get to make the choice. Lee Chaix McDonough is the CEO and founder of coach with clarity a training and education company for life and business coaches. She is also host of the coach with clarity podcast and author of the number one Amazon best selling book, act in your business, braving the storms of entrepreneurship and creating success through meaning mindset and mindfulness. After over a decade as a clinical social worker and public health professional, Lee became credentialed as a coach through the International Coach Federation, and she now provides ICF accredited training and continuing education for intuitive, innovative coaches. Her coach with clarity framework, fuses meaning mindset and mindfulness with grounded intuition, and solid business strategy to help coaches and clients excel at entrepreneurship and transform their lives. Lee lives in New Bern, North Carolina with her husband, Patrick, her to take their two teenage sons, Jack and Ben and their lovable pug, Phineas. And now here is our conversation.
Abby Herman 3:15
Hi, Lee, thank you so much for joining me.
Lee Chaix McDonough 3:18
Hi, Abby. I’m so glad to be here.
Abby Herman 3:20
Yes, I’m so excited to chat. And you and I have met in real life recently, which is really exciting. But we go back a little bit. But for people who do not know you, can you share a little bit about what you do and who you do it for?
Lee Chaix McDonough 3:37
I’d be happy to. So my name is Lee Chaix McDonough. I’m the founder of coach with clarity, which is a training and education company for life in business coaches. So I provide initial certification for people who want to become coaches. I also provide continuing education for people who want to build their mastery, both of coaching and in business. All of those programs are accredited by the international coaching Federation, which is pretty exciting. And then I also do still work with a handful of private coaching clients, helping them create really solid coaching businesses. And when I’m not working, you’ll find me hanging out with my husband, Patrick, and we have two sons, Jack and Ben, who are in the throes of adolescence. So things are quite, quite busy at our house right now. Lots of hormones going on. But I wouldn’t have it any any other way.
Abby Herman 4:30
I love that. I love that. Can you share a little bit about what it looks like to work with you and how the way you’ve structured your business helps you to live the lifestyle that you want.
Lee Chaix McDonough 4:42
I would be happy to and I think that is such a thoughtful question. When I first started my business I was doing primarily one on one coaching. And I think that’s an entry point for a lot of entrepreneurs. We start either with a done for you service or that one on one connection. And I did That exclusively for almost two years. And I still love one on one work. But as I’m sure you know, there’s only so many hours in a day. And there’s only so many people that we can serve on a one to one basis. And so that’s when I started kind of dipping my toes into running group programs. And initially, they were small programs for six, eight people in a cohort. And then I think I was probably about three years into my business when I started the coach with clarity, membership. And that is a lovely program, because it’s a hybrid of improving your skills as a coach, and improving your skills as a business owner and entrepreneur. So we look at how do we coach our clients? How do we ensure that they have effective outcomes? And how do we build a sustainable business? So that was a lot of fun. And I did that for a couple years, when people kept asking me about actually becoming a coach, do you need to be certified what kind of training is out there? And that’s it was in 2020, when I realized, you know what, I think it’s time I think I’m finally at a point, I’m about five years, and I’m ready to share my process with the world through a certification program. And then to have it accredited by an organization like ICF was really exciting as well. So the trajectory of my business went from one on one, to groups to membership, and then into a certification program. Interestingly, now, I’m also finding that I’m kind of circling back a few months ago, I just founded a small mastermind program. And there’s literally five other women in this mastermind program. So I’m kind of returning to my small group roots with that, which I really love. And I think what I love most about my business today is that I do have these multiple paths, where I can connect with my clients, based on what their needs are, and their level of readiness, whether energetically or financial. And so whether it’s through my free podcast, whether it’s through my membership, whether it’s through private coaching, there’s always a way for me to connect with people who want to learn more about coaching. And that just makes me really happy.
Abby Herman 7:10
And I imagine that doing that group work, and having the certification allows you to kind of free up some time in your life as well, so that you’re not just like you mentioned one on one work. While I think I know that, it’s very important, and it is a place where a lot of people start, it allows you to be really kind of in the weeds, and not in a bad way in the weeds, but like to, you know, have that direct connection and to stay fresh and stay on top of your industry. At the same time, it does take up a lot of time. So doing the group work, I would guess frees up your time to have you know, more space with your, your husband and with your boys. And just life in general. Right?
Lee Chaix McDonough 7:54
Does it does it It allows me to bring revenue in for actually less time, which is really attractive piece. The other thing too, and this is something I still have to watch myself on. But especially when I was doing one on one work, I was very quick to shift my calendar and my schedule to meet the needs of my clients. Yes, so I was seeing clients all the time, right any day whenever you need me. And I didn’t feel like I had a lot of control over my own schedule. And so now I’ve shifted into each day has a purpose. So you know, Tuesdays are membership days and Fridays are mastermind days. And I can see some private clients on those Tuesdays and Fridays, and maybe a Thursday too. But I really carve out Wednesdays for content creation Mondays are my CEO days where I do all of the backend administrative work. And I’ve set my calendar so that like I have pretty clear boundaries around that time. And that has made all the difference in the world as well so that I don’t feel like I’m overextending myself. Because when I do that, even if it’s to try to get a client in or to try to serve them, if I’m burning myself out, they’re not getting the best of me. And so the minute I put some hard parameters around my calendar, the better I felt and then I felt like I was showing up for my clients better as well.
Abby Herman 9:19
Mm hmm. Yeah, I do this I do something similar. Although I do feel like my calendar and the way I structure it is like in this constant state of flux, where, you know, two weeks from now I’ll decide you know, this isn’t working for me, let me show Let me try shifting a few other things. And one of the things that I did recently that kind of leads me into my next question for you is I decided that I decided this super early morning person I get up at four o’clock pretty much every day, you know, unfortunately seven days a week because my body has just kind of decided that that’s what time it needs to get up. But eat but being an early morning person I would go to the gym I’d come home I’d you know grab a quick breakfast and I wouldn’t be at my desk at six and 630 in the morning every day. And I would work a full day because I have, you know, client calls until later in the afternoon. It’s just not healthy at all. And so I decided that my mornings will be or my time and so I have blocked off every morning until 9am. On my I can see it on my Google calendar just as morning time. And in general, there is one client who we we do meet before 9am occasionally, but in general, I don’t do any calls or anything before 9am My time and I’m on I’m in Arizona, so half the time I’m on Pacific Time and half the time I’m on mountain time, which makes it a really late start for people on the East Coast for clients on the east coast. But it just has allowed me to just really take more time for myself and really structure things in a different way. And so I wanted to so I feel like you have three M’s. So you talk about mindfulness, meaning and mindset. And I feel like that leads into like, kind of the mindfulness. And I was really mindful of like what I was doing, and maybe I’m totally off base and my definition of mindfulness. But I felt like you know, it was being really mindful of what do I need to what do I need to structure my day, the right way, or to start my day off the right way? So can you talk, I want to talk about the three M’s, I want to talk about each of them. But can you share, like what that is and where those came from?
Lee Chaix McDonough 11:30
I would be happy to and and I think you’re right, I think the practice that you just described is absolutely an example of mindfulness. Because when we talk about mindfulness, we’re really talking about being fully aware, in the present moment, from a place of openness and curiosity and non judgement. So you know, that phrase, be here now, that’s the heart of mindfulness. It’s, wherever you are, whatever you you’re doing, you’re fully engaged in that moment. And you’re doing so from a place of objectivity. So you’re not necessarily shaming yourself or criticizing yourself for whatever it is you’re doing or thinking or experiencing. We’re also not getting too caught up in any positive or, or desirable emotions as well. We’re really coming at it from a neutral place. And I, for me, that’s the hardest part about mindfulness, I can pretty easily kind, of course correct and redirect myself to the present moment, but to do so without that inner critic. Without that constant dialogue of you should be doing more you could be doing this better, what are you doing? That’s the tricky part. And that’s where the other two M’s can come in to play as well meaning and mindset, because the three M’s while we can talk about them separately, and they each have their own processes, they also work in harmony with each other to really create a more holistic approach to balance and fulfillment.
Abby Herman 12:53
Mm, yes. I love that. Without the inner critic, how do you do that?
Lee Chaix McDonough 12:59
Yeah, so that’s where the mindset piece comes in. That’s that second end. And when I talk about mindset, I am talking about our relationship with our internal experiences. So it’s a pretty broad definition of mindset. There’s a lot of different definitions out there. You know, if you read the book Mindset by Carol Dweck, she talks a lot about having a fixed mindset versus a growth mindset. You know, are we static? Or are we fluid? And I think that is part of how I view mindset, but I am really interested in exploring when a thought, or an emotion or a feeling or a memory or a sensation emerges. Anything that I know I’m experiencing, you might not know, I’m having that experience, unless I tell you, those are those internal experiences, how do I respond to them? How do I relate to them? So if I have an unwanted thought, Do I feel the need to get rid of it? Do I grasp onto it and take it as truth? Same with an emotion if something feels uncomfortable? Do I try to numb it out or avoid it? Do I wallow in it? So knowing how I respond to those internal experiences can tell me a lot about my default tendencies. And then once I am aware, I’m doing that I can decide, okay, how well is this working for me? How is this serving me? How can I take this thought or emotion and make it work for me instead of against me. And so that’s where that inner critic piece comes in. Because that’s where we have a relationship with our thoughts where our thoughts may be unwanted or undesirable, and we tend to fuse with them, we take them as automatic truth. And then we allow those thoughts to dictate how we feel about ourselves, and then the action that we take in the world. So mindset work oftentimes is about just creating a new relationship with those thoughts and with those emotions,
Abby Herman 14:51
and then putting them to use within some sort of mindfulness practice.
Lee Chaix McDonough 14:57
Yes, so that non attached attachment, that objective piece of mindfulness. That’s where we can kind of bring mindset work into it so that when we notice we’re having a thought, we can decide how we want to respond to it. So if we’re, if we’re doing a formal mindfulness practice, say, if you’re going for a mindful walk, if you’re practicing meditation, whatever form of mindfulness work for you, even if it’s just sitting at your desk and being present in the moment, when you notice that inner critic dialog emerging, whatever it may be, for me, it’s Lee, you’re you’re not doing enough, you’re not working hard enough, you know, things, things can’t come this easily. So you really got to put your nose to the grindstone. And if not, then you’re not doing it, right. So when that thought comes up, I’ve got some choices. I can buy into it completely and allow it to kind of shame me for my lack of effort so far, or I can notice its intent, which is, in my belief, to keep me safe. My mind, ultimately, at the end of the day, wants to keep me safe. And what does safety look like? It looks like physical safety, financial safety, emotional safety, it certainly doesn’t look like putting myself out there being visible, or being visible, being bold and big and taking risks. That’s not safe. And so when I decide to do that, sometimes my mind might pop up. And, you know, try to get me to change course, because it wants me to stay safe. So when I can view it through that lens of up, it’s my mind, again, trying to keep me safe. I can then kind of regain control and decide, well, do I need to be safe right now? Or do I need to take a stand? Do I need to be safe? Or do I want to be bold? How is this serving me? And so really mindset work is all about creating some distance between that thought and the moment so that you can regain control and decide how do I want to move forward from here. And we do that from that place of of objectivity. Because it’s not about right or wrong, or good or bad. It’s about what’s going to work for us in the moment.
Abby Herman 17:03
And so you shared just a couple of mindfulness ways to practice mindfulness. You talked about meditation, taking a walk just being present in the moment, can you share some other thoughts of what that might look like? Like for me, when I think of, of mindfulness, I do a lot of walking. And so I tried to kind of, maybe this isn’t mindfulness, but I run scenarios in my head, or I think through things and think through things that have happened and that I want to happen and what that might look like, and you know how to, I want to say the word manifest, but I don’t really like that’s not, that’s not really a word that I would typically use, but how to make that thing happen. And then when you talk about being present in the moment, to me that is getting rid of notifications, taking your cell phone, putting turning it off, putting it in another room, I do that intentionally when I am in physical like proximity with someone else. So if I’m out to dinner with a friend or whatever, I will put my phone away because I want to be present in the moment. Of course, here as we’re talking, my phone is sitting to my left, and I can see those screen I’ve got my notifications turned off, but still like it’s there. And to me, that’s not being very mindful. What are your thoughts on that?
Lee Chaix McDonough 18:22
I think you’re right, I think when we notice what distracts our attention from the present moment, whether it’s the note of notifications on the phone, whether it’s yeah, for me, Facebook can absolutely be out of the moment. And I kind of get lost, right? Those are those are when we get distracted. And so that can make mindfulness a little more challenging. I think there are multiple ways that we can approach mindfulness. And I think the traditional way, is ensuring that our actions are connecting us more deeply with the present moment. So if you one way, not the only way, but one way of taking a mindful walk is to notice the feel of your foot as it lands on the ground and to listen to the sounds around you. Do you hear birds? Do you hear the wind to notice any smells? Really actually bringing the senses in to the process can be a way to heighten mindfulness. So that’s certainly one way and I would say kind of a traditional way of approaching mindfulness. But what you mentioned before about taking a mindful walk and being really thoughtful about planning and what you want to do and what that might look like. I think that can be a form of mindfulness, especially when we connect it to the third M, which is meaning and meaning is really about getting clear on our core values. What do we want to build our life around? What matters most to us? What do we want our legacy to be? And these are really big ideas. In my book, I talk a lot about how we can explore At what our values are, how we can clarify them. And then finally, how to infuse the actions we take with our values. Because when we are taking value aligned action, we’re going to be on the right path for us. And so what you described in your walk, it can be a form of mindfulness, but it also feels like a meaning walk in that you’re thinking about what it is you want to do, and you’re connecting it to that bigger purpose, and connecting it to your values. So again, we start seeing how the three M’s overlap with each other, and how the different processes can work together to again, ensure that you’re doing what matters most to you. You’re doing it in a way that feels good. You’re in the moment really savoring it. And then when we do that, it’s almost like the future can kind of take care of itself.
Abby Herman 20:46
Yeah. Oh, that’s so good. Okay, good. Well, I’m glad that I’m, I’m taking action, I’m doing things, you know, in a way that’s that is going to help us support success in the future. But when you talk about, like, you know, figuring out what is important to you, how do you and this is, I guess, in life or in business? Kind of a question. So how do you figure out? Well, let me backtrack. I know that today, what’s important to me is not the same thing that was important to me 10 years ago, or 20 years ago? How do you reconcile with our ever changing lives, our ever changing businesses and being okay with having that meaning piece change over time?
Lee Chaix McDonough 21:29
Yes, you know, and there are some people who might suggest that our core values don’t change or remain rather static. I’m not sure I agree with that. Now, for example, there are some values that were important to me at 20 that are still important to me today at 42, I think about service being an important value, but the way that value shows up in my life certainly looks different now as a business owner, as a wife, and as a mother than it did when I was a college student. So sometimes it’s not the value that changes as much as the way it shows up or the actions that we take. But then again, sometimes our values do shift over time. And I don’t see that as being a problem. We’re humans, we grow, we evolve. And as we grow and evolve, and as we deepen our understanding around about the world around us, about the people in our lives, it makes sense that those life lessons would inform what really matters most to us, and so that our values may shift over time. So I see that as progress, I see that as a natural evolution, provided that we’re doing so from a place of intention, where we recognize and we actively choose for these values to represent us. And again, ensuring that the actions that we’re taking are consistent with how we want to show up in the world.
Abby Herman 22:49
Hmm, yes, I so agree. Yeah, I look at, you know, things that were important to me in my 20s, and even in my 30s, and I’m quicker than I would like reaching 50 right now. In my late 40s. Now, but yeah, things have just changed. And, you know, you’re like you said, like, the difference between being a college student and now being a mother. And you know, I’m an empty nester. Now. I mean, it’s just like, things just look so different in life, and not in a bad way. But in a way that, you know, it’s nice to kind of recalibrate. So I have a question I probably should have led with this. But I wanted to get right into the mindfulness piece, because that have come up. But you work specifically with coaches and with people who want to become certified coaches, but this information, so having the three M’s and just knowing some coaching techniques is really important for any business owner, can you share a little bit about what what business owners should be paying attention to in the coaching industry, and why it’s important for them to do so?
Lee Chaix McDonough 23:55
I would love to. And you’re right that while my audience now consists primarily of coaches, a lot of what I teach and talk about is applicable, really, to business owners across all fields. And in fact, when I wrote my book, act on your business, I wrote it for business owners and entrepreneurs, so I didn’t write it for coaches. That’ll be my next book. But act on your business is really meant to help business owners of all stripes, figure out how to incorporate meaning mindset and mindfulness into their work and into their lives. And interestingly, as I started down the path of Coach Training and Education, I realized that a lot of the fundamental philosophies and approaches that I teach coaches are equally as important in the business space as well, because coaching is all about creating partnerships, building relationships, and helping people achieve more than maybe they’d be able to do on their own. And certainly, I think a lot of service based entrepreneurs can resonate with that. They view the themselves as a tool or a catalyst for their clients to, and they can help their clients achieve more than maybe they could on their own. Whether it’s through providing copywriting support, providing an amazing design, helping someone really clarify their messaging and positioning. All of these are ways to help the client achieve what they want. And the stronger relationship we have with that client, the better the outcome is going to be. So if we think about coaching, being a partnership, we can kind of take that idea of partnership and apply it to any kind of business. And then what I really stress with the, with the coaches that I teach is that coaching is a client centered approach, it means that we sent her the client’s agenda, and we are the experts in the process, but the client is the expert in themselves. And so how can we build a relationship that honors both, that creates space for us to bring in our expertise and our knowledge, but also honors what the client brings as well, again, those are concepts that I think can be applied to any business, because when you have a client centered business that’s anchored in open communication, honesty and partnership, then you’re going to have great outcomes for both coach and client or for both business owner and client.
Abby Herman 26:19
Yes, I totally agree that those are especially that well, all of them. But communication comes up for me the most. Because without that without quality communication without being able to talk about, you know, the client being able to talk about their needs and desires, and the coach or the business owner being able to kind of share their expertise. You know, I feel like everything kind of breaks down without that.
Lee Chaix McDonough 26:45
I would agree. And that’s why part of coaching. Really, I think that’s fundamental is the art of asking the right questions. And that is a tool that any business owner can can master. Because when we ask the right questions, we certainly get the answers that we need, we get the content that we need. But we can ask those questions in such a way that spurred deeper thought, awareness and insight in the client, and can really bring the relationship closer. So that’s why in coaching, we don’t do a lot of advice giving, we don’t do a lot of commentary, at least we don’t start there. We always want to start with asking questions, so that the client can start creating their own ideas in their own opportunities first, and then we come in to kind of support those ideas. Now, if asked, or with consent, we can certainly kind of contribute to the brainstorming session and throw in some ideas. We do so in such a way, though, where we always allow the client to provide feedback. And to decide, yes, this is an idea I do want to take or Nope, I don’t think that’s an idea for me. So again, we’re allowing the client to take the lead, and we’re centering their agenda.
Abby Herman 28:00
Yeah, yeah. I’d love that. Lee, where can people find more information about you and your book,
Lee Chaix McDonough 28:10
the best place to come find out about me and the work that I’m doing in the world is that my website coachwithclarity.com, when you’re there, you’ll see the link to my podcast at the coach with clarity podcast, you can also learn more about the book at coach with clarity, comm slash get the book. And then if you’re on social media, especially Instagram, come find me. I’m at coachwithclarity.
Abby Herman 28:31
You also have a free download downloadable for coaches and people who want to get into coaching, can you share a little bit about what that is and where people can find it?
Lee Chaix McDonough 28:40
I do I have a really robust free guide, actually, I think it’s like 28 pages or something. And it’s called the coach with clarity, business blueprint. And it is designed to help you get your coaching business up and running in 90 days or less. And what’s really great about it is that I did write it with coaches in mind. So some of the language is coaching specific, but a lot of the concepts are broadly applicable. So even if you don’t view yourself as a coach, if you are a service provider of any sort, I think you’ll find some benefit from the blueprint. So if you go to coachwithclarity.com/blueprint, you can request your free copy.
Abby Herman 29:16
Fantastic. Lee, thank you so much for being here. I so appreciate it. And I have to say too, I bought your book. Gosh, I think like when it very first came out, I bought your book and absolutely loved it. And I cannot recommend it enough for listeners. So make sure you go to coachwithclarity.com/getthebook and everybody get the book because it is fantastic.
Lee Chaix McDonough 29:39
Oh Abby, thank you so much that that means a lot to me. And you know, I’m coming up, believe it or not on the third anniversary of the book, which blows my mind. That’ll be in February. And I’m still really proud of it. I love it. I love what it stands for. And I think it’s probably time for me to maybe even look at doing a second edition and do some revisions to so maybe that’ll be like a 2020 To recall, well, we’ll put that out in the in the future, but it would be fun to kind of revisit some of the concepts in the book.
Abby Herman 30:06
I love that. Well, and you did already say earlier in the interview, you said that, you know, your next book would be interesting. For coaches. Yeah. So you did say that. So, when’s that one coming.
Lee Chaix McDonough 30:19
I do have something in the works, interesting, yes, I initially I thought, Okay, I’m gonna write essentially, like my coaching book like this is how to be a coach, and very how to and the more I started writing it, the more I realized, this is not what this book wants to be like, I want somehow to in there, but it doesn’t want to be just a textbook, it wants to be something more. It wants to be more personal than that. So I’m giving it time and space to kind of figure out what it wants to be. And I think 2022 will probably be the year that I return to that and see where we go with it. That’s a mortar comic.
Abby Herman 30:56
Love it. Love it. Well, thank you again for being here. I appreciate it. And we will anxiously await the updated version of your book, or, and or the new book, whichever one comes first.
Lee Chaix McDonough 31:07
Abby Herman 31:10
I love what Lee said about taking a true client centered approach to your work. Yes, there is a reason we started our businesses, we have a gift we want to share. But if we’re not sharing in a way that serves the people we’re working with, then why are we doing it in the first place? I will have links to all of the resources mentioned in this episode, including a link to Lee’s book and the Carol Dweck book that she mentioned. If you found value in what you learned here today, be sure to share it on social media. Take a screenshot of the episode on your phone and share it over on Instagram stories. You can tag me at thecontentexperiment and tag Lee at coachwithclarity. The more you share, the more we can get this podcast into the hands of more business owners just like you who need to hear the message that they are not alone. Until next time, take care
Transcribed by https://otter.ai