Podcast Guesting for Growth and Visibility with Julie Fry
Podcast Guesting for Growth and Visibility with Julie Fry

Podcast Guesting for Growth and Visibility with Julie Fry

Being a podcast guest is one of the best things you can do to elevate your visibility, but it’s often something that business owners put off. But if you want to grow your audience, get in front of new audiences, build more brand and name recognition, and more, it’s time to make guesting a priority.

This week on the podcast, Julie Fry of Your Expert Guest is sharing some of her best tips and tricks for how to find the best podcasts for you, what matters most when podcast guesting, and what to do after the podcast to thank the podcast host.

Let’s be real, all of this takes time. But it’s time well spent if you want to grow your business this year. Who’s in for some accountability?

Mentioned in This Episode Podcast

About Julie Fry

Julie Fry is the Founder of Your Expert Guest, a podcast guest booking agency for female founders and impact-driven leaders that want to speak directly to their ideal client without spending HOURS on social media.

She and her team have booked over 1500 interviews for their clients and can track hundreds of thousands of dollars of business back to being a podcast guest on top-ranked shows.

When she’s not working with her amazing team of guest and host matchmakers, she loves spending time with her family, watching SNL sketches and of course, listening to podcasts.

Transcript

Abby Herman 0:08
Hey there, and welcome to episode 219 of the content experiment podcast, a podcast for service driven business owners who know that content is important. But there’s so much more to marketing and business growth. Here we talk about showing up for your audience in a way that they want to hear and in a way that’s sustainable for you. This might mean publishing week, a weekly podcast or blog. But it also means paying attention to your email list, leveraging other people’s audiences, building relationships, and getting over the limiting mindsets that often hit when we’re reaching for the next level in our business. I’m Abby Herman, content strategist and podcast manager for business owners who want to make their marketing feel easier and more streamlined, so they can get back to serving their clients and making those sales. I’ll show you how, or I’ll do it for you while you do business in a way that works for you. I can help by supporting you through building content and marketing strategy, taking care of the podcast management for you or giving you the tools and resources to take this on yourself.

Abby Herman 1:12
You’ve probably noticed that I started back up with hosting guests on the podcast again, I talked earlier this year about why there was such a long break from them. And I’m just thrilled to be having these conversations again. I love connection and networking. And that happens when I talk to a guest. And that’s just one reason why you should be seeking out podcasts to be a guest on there’s so much value in being a guest on podcast. This is something that I’ve talked about before in solo episodes and in interviews with a few other guests. But it’s been a while and over the last year I’ve seen many people struggle in their businesses because they’re not putting themselves out there to get in front of new people. So I asked Julie Fry of your expert guest to join me this week. Julie and I talk about the value of podcast guesting why business owners just don’t do it sometimes and some important things to consider when you’re looking for podcasts to guest on. She also shares why it’s important to know why you’re guesting before you even start your research. This was something that I hadn’t even considered before. This was such a fun conversation and I walked away with some good takeaways that I’m going to start implementing in my own podcast en guesting journey.

Abby Herman 2:32
But before we get into the conversation, let me share a little bit more about Julie. Julie Fry is the founder of your expert guest a podcast booking agency for female founders and impact driven leaders that want to speak directly to their ideal client without spending hours on social media. She and her team have booked over 1500 interviews for their clients, and can track hundreds of 1000s of dollars of business back to being a podcast guest on top ranked shows. Sounds like something you need to do, right. Let’s listen into the conversation. Hi, Julie, thank you so much for joining me. I’m super excited to connect or reconnect and to chat today.

Julie Fry 3:18
Me too. Thank you so much for having me. Abby, I’m honored to be on your podcast.

Abby Herman 3:23
Yeah, well. So before we get started and dig into all of the good stuff, can you share with listeners what you do and who you do it for?

Julie Fry 3:31
Yes. So I am the founder of your expert guest. We’re a podcast guest booking agency for impact driven founders and CEOs. So we help podcasters and small business owners get on podcast to grow their visibility.

Abby Herman 3:49
I love it. And yeah, it’s such an important thing to be a guest on podcast, which is exactly what we’re talking about today. And I can’t wait for you to share all of your knowledge and resources with people. Can you share a little bit about what it looks like to work with you and how the way you work with clients helps you to live the lifestyle that you want to live?

Julie Fry 4:11
Yes. I love how you phrase that. So we are a full service agency. What that means is that people will come to us and maybe I mean, they know what their expertise is, but they haven’t quite finessed how they want to go and talk about it in the world on other people’s shows. So we help them narrow that down so that it has the impact that they want it to so that it’s driving the listeners to take the action that they want them to take when they hear their podcast episode. So we do everything from the media kit, research, outreach, follow up checking in on the strategy, everything from A to Z so that they can just show up and have a great interview. It helps me live the life that I want to Well, I have a team. So it’s myself and for account managers. So we’re a micro agency. We’re intentionally small, because I feel like that way we can give the best possible service. But yeah, so I’m really fortunate, I think I handle two clients now. And my team is so darn good at what they do. So it gives me time to focus on the vision for the business, which I love doing, and networking people with people and going on podcasts. So, and allows me to have free time to spend with my kids and shuttle them. They’re 14 and 16. So they have places they need to be. And I need flexibility to be able to do that. So this business really helps me get that done.

Abby Herman 5:49
Yeah, so you get to act like as as a true CEO, with having a team of people to help you with your client work. So

Julie Fry 5:56
yes, it’s cool.

Abby Herman 6:02
I love it. Well, so let’s talk about podcast guests, because I’ve talked about it here on the podcast before with other guests. And then also, I’ve shared some of my own thoughts, and it’s time to revisit it, because I’ve noticed a lot of people out there are finding that their traditional marketing is not working. And by traditional marketing, I mean, whether they’re producing their own podcasts, or they’re writing their own blog posts or doing YouTube and, and that’s all they’re doing, and it doesn’t seem to be working. And so I’ve talked about the value of getting out there and and showing up on other people’s audiences. But I would love to hear from you, too. So what is the value? Like? Why should business owners care about being on other people’s podcasts? Whether they are a podcaster themselves or not? Why should we care?

Julie Fry 6:55
Well, I’m gonna speak to that from the two points of one if you’re a podcaster. And you alluded to this, so when you’re a podcaster, producing your podcast, sharing about it on your social media channels, writing blog posts to talk about it. Once your podcast is established, you’re speaking essentially to the same people. Yes, you’re going to get new followers for your podcast. But it that growth once you’ve kind of plateaued is pretty slow. So what we find is quite a few podcasters come to us about guesting after they’ve had their podcasts for maybe two or three years. And they’ve seen that initial growth and now they’re ready to get in front of new people that probably haven’t heard of their podcast before. For the non podcaster or small business owner. I feel like it offers so many opportunities. So one, obviously, is the visibility, just getting the word out about your company and what it is that you do the problems that you solve for your clients. I love it for the networking perspective. So the ability to grow your network grow your potential referral partners, there are opportunities for you to be able to piggyback off your podcast guesting spots that might lead to speaking opportunities that might lead to collaborations they might lead to being invited to come and speak in somebody’s membership, or mastermind. Yeah, the list kind of goes on and on and on. And I think one of the underutilized ones is using guesting to build your network. I’ve been a lot more intentional about that the past six months or so.

Abby Herman 8:40
Yeah. And that’s something that you and I even talked about before I hit record that, you know, I was explaining, you know why I was going back to doing guest interviews on a more regular basis, because I hadn’t done them for many, many months. And, and one of the reasons is, is the network like actually and connecting with people and, you know, sitting here and listeners can’t see this, but we’re facing each other looking at each other looking at each other on Zoom while we’re recording this. And I find that that’s just so incredibly valuable as a pot as the podcaster. And valuable for you too as the guest who even though we’ve met before in person and all about so but it’s been a while.

Julie Fry 9:22
Yeah, well, and you know, I think about it in terms of networking at a large event, like we met at she podcasts and we were in a big group, not a big group, but a big enough group where it’s hard to have that intentional conversation with one person to really understand, what do you do? Do you do it for you know, learn a little bit more about them personally, and when you’re a guest on podcast, you get to do that and let go deep with one person. So you can really take that connection and you know, kind of add them to your toolkit of people that you can support and they can support you and then you can develop friendships like there’s so much goodness that goes into being able to have a conversation with just one person at a time.

Abby Herman 10:08
Yeah, absolutely. It’s my, my favorite thing to do. I much prefer that than being in a in a large group.

Julie Fry 10:15
Yeah, me too. Yeah.

Abby Herman 10:18
So can you share, like maybe some of your thoughts? And maybe we can maybe we can refer back and forth about, like, why people don’t put themselves out there. But what are your initial thoughts about,

Julie Fry 10:28
we’re gonna get to the bottom of this. So when I hear from people that might contact us, but they’ve never been on podcast before is they don’t feel like they’re expert enough, or they don’t have enough to offer to go on to go on somebody else’s podcast, and definitely not to pitch themselves to be on somebody else’s podcast. So it’s impostor syndrome, I think is a big one, especially for women. Men seem to not have as much of an issue around that. And I would say, priorities, you know, we all are running businesses. And there are a variety of critical and important tasks that need to get done every day. And so unless you’re really intentional about being a guest on podcast, and building time into your calendar to actually do the activities, it’s necessary to actually get an interview on somebody else’s podcast, it’s just gonna keep falling down, you’re down to the bottom of your priority list. What do you think Abby?

Abby Herman 11:33
Yeah, I will the first one. So when you talked about impostor syndrome, and just feeling like I don’t have anything to say or nobody, nobody’s listening, which is also something that we, we me, I have told myself as a podcaster, or, you know, even before public, they just started my podcast a couple years ago, or publishing anything is like, who cares? Who’s gonna listen to me? And and adding on to that? There are a lot of people out there who do what I do. And so I feel like, well, I don’t have anything new to add to the conversation or so you know, maybe people feel like that. Like, there’s, there’s so many people out there talking about it already. Why would someone have me on their podcast, which goes back to impostor syndrome, it’s just the stories that we tell ourselves in our head. really hold us back?

Julie Fry 12:27
For sure, for sure.

Abby Herman 12:29
And maybe this this aligns with the imposter syndrome? Also, I’m not My name is not big enough. Not enough people know who I am. You know, especially when you’re pitching a podcast that you have listened to for a long time. You know, why would that person want me to be on their podcast? What? You know, I’m not important enough. I’m not big enough.

Julie Fry 12:54
Yeah, we do, we do see that. And it’s a tough one. Because you have to be able to trick your mind into getting over that, to realize that you do have something to share. And you’re not the same as everybody else. There are things that differentiate you from your personality to the way that you communicate to just certain nuances and the information that you really like, Who’s your ideal client? Who’s your target audience? Yeah. So there’s lots of differentiation points, but it is like you have to trick yourself into getting rid of the bad thoughts. And just think about how you’re supporting other podcasters that actually, if they have an interview, format, podcast, they need guests, you’re doing them a favor by reaching out to offer your expertise to chat with them on their show.

Abby Herman 13:46
Yes, I totally agree. They, yes, podcasts, want guests on them. And sometimes, it’s a lot of work to find quality guests. So if you have something to share, what I like one of the things I like to do is go through and look at the types of guests that people have had on their podcasts and try to think of like how do I do things differently because it just like you said, we all have our own personalities, we all have our own way of doing things we have our own way of, of sharing information and teaching other people it which is essentially what you’re doing as a guest in not in every instance, a lot of sometimes their storytelling and things like that, but everybody has their own way of doing it. And so it’s so important to be to be able to put yourself out there.

Julie Fry 14:38
Yeah, you’re uniquely you and people do want to hear from you for sure.

Abby Herman 14:42
Yes. And something we’re gonna get into in a little bit here. Also, the other thing you mentioned was priorities and just having so much to do and there’s a lot that goes into finding the right podcasts and pitching yourself and all of that and so I definitely want to talk about that a little bit more to it. Tactical just dive right into it. Okay, I want to know, I would love to know from you. How do you find the right podcasts for your clients? So when you’re researching, obviously not every podcast is for every potential guest, there are some times it’s just not going to be a good fit. So how do you find the right fits for them?

Julie Fry 15:21
So I was actually just revert you were going through the process of reviewing our SOPs. And I was just looking at the one earlier today for our podcast research process. As long. I was like, wow, there’s a lot of steps to this. So the first thing we look at is and speaking directly to the person who wants to go on shows is who are your clients? Well, actually, one step before that. Why are you guesting on podcast? Is it to grow your own podcast? Is it because you have a new service in your business that you want to make people aware of? Do you have a book that you’re launching? Are you looking to connect with referral partners? So you know, from those variety of reasons that you could be guessing what’s the primary one that’s driving your activities?

Abby Herman 16:17
Not to interrupt, I will Yes, I am going to interrupt. why did why does it matter? Why does it matter if it’s for a book? Or if it’s for, you know, promoting my own podcast? Or you know, why?

Julie Fry 16:31
That’s a great question. So, specifically, I think the biggest why’s kind of come into play when you’re looking to build your referral network, versus just building visibility, whether it’s a service or a book. If you are going on for referral partners, obviously, you’re looking to go on shows that have complementary businesses to yours in a lot of cases. And if you’re going on for visibility, you’re looking to go on shows that are your ideal client. So those are kind of the main reasons.

Abby Herman 17:03
Okay, that that helps. Yeah, I was just curious, I didn’t know that. There would be a difference in how we would look for podcasts. But that totally makes sense. So

Julie Fry 17:10
yeah. And so once we get to the why, then we look at, you know, who’s the target audience? If you’re a podcaster, we look at what are your top few episodes. So we know what content is really resonating with your existing listener base, we look at your competition. And then we just start doing research on the industry. And you know, like, let’s say, for example, you are wanting to get in front of health and wellness professionals. We’ve had a few clients that are in that space. So we would also do a Google search on podcasts for health and wellness coaches, and Google will deliver, you know, 50 or so podcasts. And and then you can go through the process of elimination, which is, are they still active? Do they take guests, depending on the client, sometimes we might have a show size criteria, like is the show big enough for this particular guest. So we just start checking the boxes of does the show meet what we’re looking for. And the other piece that I think is really important is looking, once you find a show that looks really good, is go to the website for the host, sometimes it might be a different name than what the podcast is, and really get an understanding of what the host does. Because it will really help you and both your outreach when you’re reaching out to be a guest, as well as if you have an interview with the host so that you can really speak to what it is that they do for their clients and how you can complement that or kind of piggyback off of that.

Abby Herman 18:54
Yeah, I think it really helps you to get an idea of their personality and and what they’re actually looking for in a guest too

Julie Fry 19:02
absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, so

Abby Herman 19:04
I have I have a I have a comment on that. But the first I want to talk I want to say, so how do you like tell me about this process of elimination? Because when I’ve Googled podcasts in the past, you come up or when you search them, and then you come up with a lot of options. But when you start digging into the podcast, you can see that they’re not active. They haven’t published a podcast in a year or it’s they’ve been really inconsistent with their publishing. Is there a shortcut?

Julie Fry 19:41
Yeah, so time consuming. We use a paid tool. So it’s called Rev phonic. And they do have a single user option that I think is like 100 bucks a month so it goes up from there. But if you’re really serious about guessing on podcasts, I feel like it’s money well spent. Because it does, you can put all sorts of filters on what you’re looking for. And it will save you a lot of time. If you don’t want to go that route, and you want free tools, I love lists and notes, you can search by competitor, keyword podcast. And it’s a pretty quick way to get a list of shows. And then you can see where the show ranks globally compared to other podcasts. So we often use a combination of like our paid tool, listen notes, and Apple podcasts and kind of look at a show across those three spectrums to determine if it’s a good fit or not for the client.

Abby Herman 20:43
I love that I didn’t realize that there were tools out there like that.

Julie Fry 20:48
So I think there’s a number of other paid databases that you can use to find shows. That’s just the one that we’ve been using almost since we started and have found it to be really great. I love that.

Abby Herman 21:01
Yeah. The other comment that I wanted to make about something that you said just a little bit ago around like going to the website, and, you know, finding out more about the host and what kind of episodes they have on their podcast. I cannot even count the number of pitches that I have gotten for this podcast, from people who clearly have no idea what the podcast is about what the things are that I talked about on the podcast? Can you talk a little bit about that? And the importance of really knowing who you’re pitching to? Yeah,

Julie Fry 21:41
that one is so painful. And I’m curious. So when you’re getting those pitches, are they coming directly from the person who wants to be on your show? Or is it coming from somebody else that is pitching, but it’s

Abby Herman 21:52
coming from somebody else that’s pitching a couple of them actually, more than a couple of times, I’ve had somebody pitch this person, this person, and this person would be great for the podcast, and there’s like two paragraphs on each person, none of whom, like even closely relate to anybody I’ve had on the podcast before. Yeah, and honestly, I just, sometimes I can tell on the subject line, that it’s it’s a pitch from somebody I don’t know. And they’re pitching, you know, somebody who I can tell it’s not a good fit just from their subject, subject lines might just delete it,

Julie Fry 22:25
because it’s something like, you know, II would be a phenomenal guest for you know, like, it’s all about the person rather than what

Abby Herman 22:35
Yes, what the person has accomplished, not what they’re going to share with the audience.

Julie Fry 22:41
Yes, yes. So what I have seen, and I have a lot of friends who are podcasters, and they will for their horrible pitches to me is that there are a lot of agencies out there that are quota based. And so they promise that they will deliver a certain number of interviews to their client. And when you’re playing a pure numbers game like that, you know, sometimes you’re desperate, and you’re like, oh, gosh, I need to get one more show for my client this month. And they’re spraying and praying and just trying to find something that works. We do things very differently. Every pitch is customized to the podcaster. You know, and the client, but really to the podcaster? Because that’s what the podcaster cares about is what is this? What is this guest going to do for me and my audience. So that is the primary driver for I think those bad pitches, honestly, and a lack of training. You know, when when we have hired in the past, we’re very thoughtful and pull in people that either have podcast management, guests management experience, guest outreach experience, or PR experience. So they understand that process. I’ve seen listings for other companies that have no experience required, you know, it’s $15 an hour. So you’re kind of getting what you pay for. So that’s really unfortunate.

Abby Herman 24:08
I always feel really bad for the person who is being pitched.

Julie Fry 24:13
Oh, me too

Abby Herman 24:14
because I so want to eat, find them, email them and tell them hey,

Julie Fry 24:20
you’re actually damaging your brand reputation. Yeah, we have discovery calls with clients, I always tell them that this is a two way process. So you know, we need to feel like we’re confident that we can get you on podcasts and help you achieve your goals. And conversely, we need to feel confident that you’re going to represent us in a positive way when you’re going on shows. So you can’t be a hard seller. You need to show up and if you aren’t going to show up, like give us or the podcast or adequate notice. So it’s you know, it has to be a fit on both sides. But yes, I feel the same way. Whenever I hear about people that are working with those types of companies, I’m just like, oh, gosh, yeah, some of them are not cheap at all.

Abby Herman 25:09
I’m sure, yes. I want to talk about what you just said, the like, having the guests represent, you know, be a good representation of their own brand. And if you when they’re on podcast, what does that look like? Like? What are some some tips that you have around being a good guest? You just said something about hard sell, like, like not hard selling? Can you talk a little bit about what that what that looks like?

Julie Fry 25:37
Yeah, for sure. So we have a checklist that’s for free on our website that I’ll mention later. But we go through a lot of the things that help you be the type of guests that a host would invite back or refer to other podcasters. So let’s see, let’s start with doing your research. So always listening to the show before you are are interviewed, so that you understand what the hosts format is. Are there certain questions that they ask every guest if you want to listen for that so that you’re prepared and not like total faceplant? When they asked you that question, you want to show up and provide value. So I like to ask in the beginning of the interview before they actually start recording I did this with Abby is like, tell me about your audience who’s listening to the show so that you can speak to either the challenges that those listeners are having or just speaking to that audience in general. So getting clear on who their listeners are, don’t hard sell, don’t just go on expecting to talk about how great you are and why people should buy this or that, like, nobody wants to hear it, they will stop. This is kind of a funny one. But when you give your bio to the host, and a lot of hosts will be specific and say give me your 50 word bio. But do not give a 500 word bio, as I have listened to a podcast, and then the host reads the bio. And these are podcasts I listened to every week. And you know, if the bio introduction is going on for more than 30 seconds, I’m going to skip that episode this week, I’m not going to listen. So be short and concise with who you are, who you are and who you do it for. Let’s see what else tell stories to illustrate your points. So if there are ways that you have provided transformation for your clients, it’s always great to share actual stories of how you do that. After the interview, make sure you rate and review the podcast. And then most importantly, the biggest thing he you can give a host is to share the episode once it goes live. At she podcasts where Abby and I met. That was the number one complaint question that everybody had in the audience is, how do I get guests to share my episode. So it goes a long way. And if you also incorporate that into your pitch to be a guest, like let the host know how you’re going to support the episode once it goes live, they really appreciate that.

Abby Herman 28:20
Yes, that is the biggest struggle for me is is just I I want people to share, I want guests to share the episodes when they’ve been on my podcast. And I also see the other side of it to where sometimes I struggle to share podcasts that I’ve been on, because of lack of time, or I just happen to see it on their social media. So I’m not getting the information to be able to share. And so that makes it difficult. We try to get the we tried to get our guests, the links and graphics and all of that, you know, several days in advance so that they know that it’s coming out. But you know, just a note for podcasters to make sure that you’re sharing this information with your guests so that it’s really easy. I was on a podcast. And I wish I remembered off the top of my head whose podcast it was because I would give them a huge shout out right now. But they sent me not only graphics and links a week in advance, but also copy for social media posts. So I didn’t even have to write I did go in and tweak a little bit. But it was amazing. I thought it was so amazing. And I thought in my head I thought oh, I need to start doing this. But I haven’t because I just haven’t had time to incorporate that. But yeah, that was huge. And I shared that one all over the place.

Julie Fry 29:52
And so great. We’re seeing that more and more with podcasters. When our clients episodes go live is they’ll send us and the client As you know, the audiogram graphics suggested social media posts. So like, it’s easy, if you have the ability to make it easy for your guests, it’s more likely that they’ll share it. Some still don’t share it. So you know, if you’re listening and you’re guessing or want to guess, like, that’s the number one thing you can do, that’s really helpful. And then I always say, stay in touch with if you had a great conversation with the host, and you feel like this is somebody that you want to have in your network, like, check in every quarter, or every six months just to say, hi, and what are you working on? Do you have anything new going on in your business? Are you looking for any guests? How can I support you and you know, just be a human, be a good human. And, you know, it’s amazing where those relationships can go. So definitely stay in touch.

Abby Herman 30:53
I love that because then it feels less transactional and more truly connecting and building a relationship with the person, which is something that I’ve I’ve said that I have intentionally built relationships with people who have kind of like those dream podcasts that I want to be on, you know, because I know that I need to have a connection with the person first before they’re going to say yes, to me being on their podcast. I’ve done that a couple of times successfully and maintained contact with those people afterwards, too, which I think is Yeah, super important. Yeah. I want to get back to one of the points that you gave one of the things that we should do, and you said, Don’t hard sell, which I totally agree. I actually interviewed someone never released the interview, because it was very much a hard sell. And somebody I knew in advance, so And to be fair, I pitched that person to be on the podcast, and it did not go well. But I do want to mention that I’m having I’m interviewing somebody in a couple of weeks, the episode will come out in about six weeks from when this one goes live, to talk about selling on the podcast. So Nikki Roush, the sales and even here, yes, you know, because I think that there are ways and Nikki is like, the perfect person to talk about this too, because she’s, she’s just so good at sales. But she talks about I’m interviewing her to talk about like, what does it Excuse me? What does it sound like to to mention your your services and your products and your freebies? And things like that? How do you weave them into the conversation? Because I think that that’s really important to do, and not be sleazy about it, like, you know, you’re genuinely there to help and to give input and to teach something, and you have a great resource that you know, and so and you talk about it in a way, that’s not sleazy. So that’s coming in a couple of weeks, I’m super excited about that.

Julie Fry 32:54
I’m excited for that, too. She is a master of like having a great conversation, giving amazing sales tips and strategies. Like if you listened to every one of her podcast episodes and guest episodes, like you could do what she does, but most of us can’t retain that. And so they need to join her membership or hire her. She’s great, you know, mentioning how she works with clients and the different types of offerings in her business. And we like it’s just magical listening to her do that.

Abby Herman 33:27
Yes, I agree. I agree. So I want to talk, before we wrap things up, I want to talk about something that you posted on LinkedIn today, the day that we’re interviewing, and I’m gonna put a link to this post in the show notes for people. But something that you talked about as you as a guest is getting ready to be on a podcast, you talked about not asking about certain things like podcast downloads and ranking and stuff like that. Can we you share a little bit about why we shouldn’t ask about that. Like, why or why is that not important? And what should we be focused on instead, as the guest or as the potential guest?

Unknown Speaker 34:12
Yes. And so the origin behind that post is we sometimes do work for PR agencies that do traditional media for their clients, and they also want to offer podcasts, guest spots to their clients. And since that they usually come to us after they’ve tried and haven’t gotten any yeses. And then they hire us. So this particular PR agency after we got a booking for one of the clients on a top 1% show that’s super established, she emailed him and said, Can you provide me with your downloads and your podcast ranking so that I can see if the A client will do a pre call with you. And I just went. And I asked her, please don’t do that, you know, we provide that information to you. But the reason why you don’t want to ask that information is because it feels very transactional to the host for when they feel a little used. And no one likes to feel like they’re just a stepping stone for someone. And that information will you cannot get the exact number of followers to a podcast or downloads, you can cobbled together a pretty good picture of the reach of a show. And so, you know, kind of going back to listen notes, you can put the podcast into listen notes and see, is this a top 5% show? Or does it not even give a percentage of what the show is, if it doesn’t give a percentage of where the show lies in the global rankings, then it’s going to be a pretty small audience, you know, and depending on your goals, that may not be a good fit for you. You can look at their social media platforms and see are people engaging with them when they release a new episode, that gives you a sense that their listeners are connected to that host. And if you’re a guest on that show, that connection kind of automatically transfers a bit on to the guest, you increase that know like trust factor, you can look at Apple ratings and reviews. So you can look to see how many ratings and reviews does that show have. And a show doesn’t have to have a ton for it to be a good engaged audience. But if there are zero, then you know, it might be a point of concern, you know, you may or may not want to do the show. So those are some tools and just resources to look at to try to determine, you know, what’s the general size of this audience? And make a determination of if it’s right for you or not?

Abby Herman 37:04
Well, and I think to the, you know, asking about some of those really specific numbers, goes back to, you know, what people have been talking about for a long time about email list numbers, doesn’t really matter how many people are on your email list? You know, I have a couple 1000 on mine, you know, but I don’t have 10,000. And, and I’m okay with that, because I like having a smaller list, it means that they’re more engaged, it means that it’s more of a community instead of a, you know, like, I just want to have the biggest numbers. Yeah, the vanity metrics. It’s just Yeah, it doesn’t, it doesn’t matter. What matters is the engagement. Like you’re sad. And you know, that people are actually listening. So

Julie Fry 37:51
yeah, yeah, for sure. And it’s I think, you know, our society pays so much attention to vanity metrics that it’s easy to get caught up in that. But yeah, remembering you know, who you’re for, who do you want to connect with? From a host and a guest and an audience perspective? Like, that’s the most important thing?

Abby Herman 38:10
Yes. Yeah. And yeah, exactly. Yes. Thank you for that. I just, I didn’t want to not talk about that. Because I think because I really resonated with that. That posed a lot so well, I so appreciate your time and being here. And you know, just giving so many tangible things that people can do, as they’re thinking about and and starting to guest and hopefully people already are guesting on podcast. Can you share again about the checklist that you have? And then give us two actionable things that if if listeners only were able to do two things that you mentioned, what two things with that? Would that be I can see like I can see on zoom here, your your thinking is anything

Julie Fry 39:00
which too. So yes, I mentioned that we have a free free checklist. It is designed to help you be the best podcast guest ever. And we walked through what to do before, during and after your podcast interview. And that you can grab at your expert guests.com/checklist. And in terms of the two top takeaways, I would say first is if you want to guest on shows that it needs to be intentional and build time in your calendar. I would start with an hour a week. And even though that doesn’t sound like a lot of time, it’s amazing what you can get done in an hour a week. So for your research piece, set a timer don’t research for more than 30 minutes. That was something I meant to say during the research portion is set a timer and our team does this too because we can also They’ll go down rabbit holes that set a timer for how long you’re going to do research. And that’s the number of podcasts you come up with. And then the other 30 minutes can be, you know, going to the website, finding the contact information, doing your outreach, boom, there you go. And the second piece is, I would say, to remember to be thinking long term rather transactional, rather than being transactional about your guest appearances. A successful marketing strategy that involves podcast guesting is a marathon, not a sprint. So remember to, you know, do the things that provide a great healthy, long term relationship for you and the host, and you’ll see your results go far.

Abby Herman 40:45
Yes, and that’s a great way to approach any kind of marketing activity. It’s always going to be a marathon, not a sprint. So yes, Julie, where do you like to hang out online? Where’s your what’s your favorite place to hang out?

Unknown Speaker 40:57
LinkedIn is where I will be online.

Abby Herman 41:01
Awesome. I will include a link to your LinkedIn profile in the show notes too. So and thank you so much for being here. I so appreciate you.

Julie Fry 41:11
Thank you. This was really fun, Abby.

Abby Herman 41:13
I love that Julie mentioned thinking long term strategy when it comes to podcast guesting like I mentioned in the episode, this is important in anything marketing related. I think we get so hung up on quick fixes that we forget how much time it takes to get noticed online, especially now. So if your first pitches go unanswered, don’t give up, do some research and go back to the drawing board, you might be looking at the wrong podcasts. If you’re a repeat listener here and you haven’t already left a rating and review, I would be so grateful if you’d hop over to your favorite podcast app and do just that. Ratings and reviews are what helped tell Apple Spotify, Stitcher and all the other platforms and me that you like what you’re hearing and it helps to get the podcast into more earbuds so other people can benefit from the information that I’m sharing. If you found value in what you learned here today, be sure to share it on social media. Take a screenshot of the episode on your phone and share it over on Instagram stories. You can tag me at the content experiment or go to LinkedIn connect with me and Julie our links are in the show notes. And tell us that you found us on the podcast when you send the connection invitation. Again, the more you share this podcast with others the more we can get it into the earbuds of more business owners just like you who need to hear the message that they are not alone. Until next time, take care

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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